1 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS 2 SHERMAN DIVISION 3 TIMOTHY JACKSON, X X 4 Plaintiff, X X 5 VS. X CASE ACTION X NO.: 4:21-cv-00033-ALM 6 LAURA WRIGHT, ET AL., X X 7 Defendants. X 8 9 --------------------------------------------------------- 10 ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 11 ANDREW JAY CHUNG 12 October 15, 2024 13 (Reported Remotely) 14 --------------------------------------------------------- 15 16 ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ANDREW JAY 17 CHUNG, produced as a witness at the instance of the 18 Plaintiff, and duly sworn, was taken in the above-styled 19 and numbered cause on October 15, 2024, from 9:05 a.m. to 20 12:46 p.m., via Zoom, before JENNIFER L. SANDERS, CSR in 21 and for the State of Texas, reported by machine 22 shorthand, the witness located in Worcester, 23 Massachusetts, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil 24 Procedure and the provisions stated on the record and/or 25 attached hereto. 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 3 MR. MICHAEL THAD ALLEN Allen Harris, PLLC 4 PO Box 404 Quaker Hill, Connecticut 06375 5 Office: 860-499-3399 Fax: 860-481-7899 6 Email: mallen@allenharrislaw.com 7 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 8 MS. MARY QUIMBY 9 Assistant Attorney General General Litigation Division 10 P.O. Box 12548 Austin, Texas 78711-2548 11 Office: 512-463-2100 Email: mary.quimby@oag.texas.gov 12 13 FOR UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS 14 MR. RENALDO L. STOWERS MS. CARI JACOBY 15 UNT System Office of General Counsel 16 801 North Texas Boulevard Denton, Texas 76201 17 Office: 940-565-2717 Fax: 940-369-7026 18 Email: renaldo.stowers@untsystem.edu Email: cari.jacoby@untsystem.edu 19 20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 21 Mr. Adam Scozzari Legal Video Group 22 Office: 214-598-5229 Email: lvg.dallas@gmail.com 23 24 25 3 1 I N D E X PAGE 2 Appearances.......................................... 2 3 Exhibit Index........................................ 4 4 Agreements........................................... 5 5 6 ANDREW JAY CHUNG 7 Examination by Mr. Allen......................... 6 8 9 Changes and Signature................................ 148 10 Reporter's Certificate............................... 150 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 E X H I B I T S 2 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE 3 1 Re-Notice of Taking Deposition................. 9 4 2 Curriculum Vitae............................... 11 5 3 Complication of Two Websites and One Journal Article concerning the Journal Spectrum........ 23 6 4 Email from Timothy Jackson to Stephen 7 Slottow, et al., dated 12/11/19, and other email (UNT 563-566)............................ 50 8 5 Email from Stephen Slottow to Timothy 9 Jackson, et al., dated 7/25/20, and other email (UNT 300-303)............................ 63 10 6 Material for the Committee (UNT 2645-2782)..... 80 11 7 Email from Timothy Jackson to others dated 12 7/26/20, and other email (UNT 304-309)......... 84 13 8 Open Letter on anti-racist Actions Within SMT (UNT 1090-1115)................................100 14 9 Ad Hoc Review Panel Report of Review of 15 Conception and Production of Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies dated 11/25/20 16 (Jackson 208-233)..............................117 17 10 Email from Music Information dated 1/5/22 (UNT 5521-5522)................................133 18 11 Email from Music Information dated 11/23/21 19 (UNT5523-5525).................................135 20 12 Facebook Post by Levi Walls dated 7/27/20 (Jackson 234-236)..............................137 21 13 Email from Ellen Bakulina dated 7/29/20........143 22 23 24 25 5 1 A G R E E M E N T S 2 DEPOSITION OF: ANDREW JAY CHUNG 3 DATE: October 15, 2024 4 CAUSE NO. 4:21-cv-00033-ALM 5 TAKEN PURSUANT TO: 6 (X) Notice 7 ( ) Agreement ( ) Court Order 8 (X) Rules of Civil Procedure 9 ORIGINAL TO: 10 ( ) Witness 11 (X) Witness's Attorney ( ) Producing Attorney 12 ( ) Custodial Attorney 13 ADDRESS FOR ORIGINAL: 14 MS. MARY QUIMBY 15 Assistant Attorney General General Litigation Division 16 P.O. Box 12548 Austin, Texas 78711-2548 17 18 NUMBER OF DAYS FOR SIGNATURE: 19 ( ) 20 days (X) 30 days 20 ( ) other: 21 MISCELLANEOUS: 22 ( ) Any objection made by one party inures to all 23 parties. (X) An unsigned copy may be used at any trial or 24 hearing. 25 6 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Today's date October 15, 3 2024. The time is 9:07 a.m. We're on the record. 4 THE REPORTER: My name is Jennifer Sanders, 5 Texas CSR 5091. I am reporting this deposition remotely 6 by stenographic means from Carrollton, Texas. The 7 witness is located in Worcester, Massachusetts. 8 ANDREW JAY CHUNG, 9 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: 10 MR. ALLEN: Thank you, Professor Chung. 11 Shall we state all the attorneys' names for 12 the record, Madam Court Reporter? 13 THE REPORTER: Sure. 14 MR. ALLEN: My name is Michael Thad Allen 15 for the plaintiff in this civil action. 16 MS. QUIMBY: My name is Mary Quimby with 17 the Texas Attorney General's office. I represent the 18 defendants in this matter. 19 MR. STOWERS: My name is Renaldo Stowers. 20 I'm the deputy general counsel for the University of 21 North Texas System. 22 EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. ALLEN: 24 Q. Thank you, Professor Chung. I'm just going to 25 talk to you about a few basic ground rules for 7 1 depositions. Have you ever been deposed before? 2 A. I have not. 3 Q. So I can just ask you for the record to state 4 your full name, just as you had before we went on the 5 record? 6 A. Yes. My full name is Andrew Jay Chung. 7 Q. Is there anything that would interfere with 8 your ability to answer questions truthfully today? 9 A. Not to my knowledge. 10 Q. You're not on any medications? 11 A. I am not. 12 Q. You're not suffering from any illness or mental 13 condition that would affect your memory? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. And from time to time your attorney may 16 object. That's a normal part of building a record for 17 the court, which is what we're here to do today. It does 18 not relieve you of your obligation to answer a question 19 that is before you. Is that clear? 20 A. Understood. 21 Q. There are some few exceptions, but they will be 22 very clear if they come up. I imagine your attorney 23 would instruct you not to answer. But for the most part, 24 objections are for the record. 25 If at any time you don't understand a question 8 1 I've asked you, just please interrupt me and ask for 2 clarification. That is also perfectly normal. I don't 3 want you to answer a question that you haven't understood 4 or that I've put unclearly in some way. Is that clear? 5 A. Understood. 6 Q. And, likewise, if you do not ask for 7 clarification, I will assume that you have understood the 8 question as asked. Is that also clear? 9 A. Understood. 10 Q. I need you to answer questions audibly. There 11 are many things we do in the course of ordinary 12 conversations like nod, say things like "uh-huh" and 13 "huh-uh." But those don't help build a clear record, 14 which the stenographer and court reporter is taking down 15 word for word. 16 So I'm going to ask you in response to all 17 questions to answer them with an audible "yes" or "no" or 18 as you have been doing say "understood" or "correct" or 19 something of that nature that is audible. Is that also 20 clear? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Thank you. From time to time I'll also be 23 introducing exhibits today. I'm going to introduce the 24 first one right now. If I am finding it. There it is. 25 I'm going to mark as Exhibit 1 for the record 9 1 the document that you should see on the screen. Can I 2 just ask for clarification if that's visible to you, 3 Professor Chung? 4 A. Yes. It's visible. 5 (Exhibit No. 1 marked.) 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Like I asked you to ask for 7 clarification when I ask questions, likewise, if I'm 8 introducing an exhibit and you need to see some part of 9 it or want clarification of how long it is, anything of 10 that nature, just please tell me. I'm not trying to hide 11 the ball or conceal pages. 12 We are in a virtual deposition today. So that 13 will mean I can only show you one page at a time. But if 14 you ask, I'm happy to navigate to where in the document 15 you would to see. Likewise, I'm not going to ask you to 16 answer questions if you haven't had a chance to review a 17 document. So if you want additional time to review or 18 read a document, just please tell me. Okay? 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. Thank you. Do you recognize this document 21 captioned Re-Notice of Taking Deposition that I've 22 introduced as Exhibit 1? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. I'll just go -- it's two pages. I'm just 25 scanning down to the signatures on the second page. Have 10 1 you had a chance to look at this document? 2 A. I have seen it. 3 Q. Is it accurate to say you have appeared today 4 to give testimony in response to this re-notice of taking 5 deposition? 6 A. I assume so. 7 Q. All right. I don't have any questions about 8 this any further at this time. 9 Can I ask you to explain what you've done to 10 prepare for today's deposition, Professor Chung? 11 A. I have met with Mary Quimby and Renaldo Stowers 12 to go over what a deposition is. We looked at the 13 faculty letter that was signed in relation to the Journal 14 of Schenkerian Studies. We looked at the student 15 generated document as well. 16 Q. And let me be clear. I'm not asking you to 17 tell me what you've discussed with your attorneys. That 18 would be privileged. 19 In -- in addition to looking at the faculty 20 statement, I believe you said, or letter and the student 21 correspondence did you say? Is that how you put it? 22 A. I think I said statement. 23 Q. Statement. 24 A. I don't know. 25 Q. Is this -- well, I'm sure we'll get to that 11 1 document. Are you referring to a statement circulated 2 around July -- the end of July 2020 by graduate students 3 of the University of Texas? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. University of North Texas? Excuse me. 6 A. North Texas. Yes. 7 Q. Were there any other documents you examined in 8 preparation for your testimony today? 9 A. At the time that is what I truthfully recall. 10 Q. And about how long did you spend discussing 11 today's deposition with your attorney? 12 A. We went about four hours. 13 Q. Okay. Did you speak with anyone else in 14 preparation for your testimony today? 15 A. Nope. 16 (Exhibit No. 2 marked.) 17 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) I want to ask you a few 18 questions about the course of your career just as a 19 matter of background, if you don't mind. I'm going to 20 introduce for the record Exhibit 2. Let me -- sorry. 21 From time to time this may get cumbersome, but I'm sure 22 we'll get through it. 23 Can you see Exhibit 2 that I've marked for the 24 record, which is captioned January 2024, Andrew Jay 25 Chung? 12 1 A. Yes. Correct. 2 Q. Is it accurate to say this is your current CV? 3 A. No, it is not. I've updated the CV between 4 January and now. 5 Q. Will you be able to provide a current version 6 of your CV for your attorney for production in this civil 7 action? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. So I just want to go through -- is it -- is it 10 true that you have compiled this CV yourself? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And everything in this CV at least, up to 13 January 2024, accurate? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So based on your CV, you received your PhD in 16 music from Yale University in May 2019? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And that was after completing an MPhil in music 19 at Yale in 2016? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. And at the same time you received an MA in 22 music at Yale in 2016, right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And you attended Wesleyan University for your 25 undergraduate degree? 13 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. And there you graduated in 2012, right? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Okay. Was the visiting instructorship at 5 Wesleyan in the spring of 2019 your first job after 6 completing your PhD in music? 7 A. Incorrect. That was while I was completing my 8 PhD. 9 Q. How long were you a visiting instructor at 10 Wesleyan? 11 A. For the semester of spring 2019, just like it 12 says. 13 Q. So when you finished the spring semester there, 14 what happened next? 15 A. I spent the summer moving to Carrollton, Texas, 16 in preparation for my appointment at the University of 17 North Texas. 18 Q. And you started there roughly 19 August/September 2019? 20 A. Officially September 1, 2019. 21 Q. Have you held any other positions since you 22 took the position in the fall of 2019 at the Division of 23 Music History, Theory, and Ethnomusicology at UNT? 24 A. I have not. I am currently on leave on a 25 research fellowship at the -- at a research library 14 1 called the American Antiquarian Society. Strictly 2 speaking, this is not an appointment, but this is why I 3 am not at the University of North Texas and it's some -- 4 it's -- it is what I am doing professionally now for this 5 year. 6 Q. I believe -- is that in Worcester, 7 Massachusetts? 8 A. Worcester, yes. 9 Q. Thank you. So just let me see if I get this 10 right. You received a fellow [audio cut out] to attend 11 the institution where you're now pursuing your career but 12 you remain appointed as a professor at the University of 13 North Texas? 14 A. Your audio cut out in the middle of your 15 question. Please ask it again. 16 Q. Yeah. Thanks. And this is a good example of 17 asking for clarification. So thanks a lot. 18 I just wanted to summarize to make sure I 19 understand. So at point you received a fellowship to 20 attend the institution where you're now pursuing your 21 career, but while you pursue your career in Worcester, 22 you're also continuing your appointment as an assistant 23 professor at UNT? 24 A. Yes. I am on the research leave at the 25 University of North Texas while I'm conducting research 15 1 here. 2 Q. Okay. And you'll understand if I say "UNT" I 3 mean the University of North Texas, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. When do you expect to return to the University 6 of North Texas? 7 A. If I return, I expect to return June 2025. 8 Q. Okay. Between 2019 and now have you held any 9 visiting positions at any other institution besides the 10 one at which you are now? 11 A. No. I have not. 12 Q. Okay. You remain an assistant professor now? 13 A. I currently am an assistant professor, correct. 14 Q. When do you intend to go up for tenure? 15 A. My tenure application has been submitted in -- 16 in May and -- in two parts, in May and August of this 17 year. 18 Q. And just for the record, 2024, right? 19 A. That is this year. Yes. 20 Q. Since you have already testified that you've 21 updated your CV to the present, I am just going to ask 22 you to state for the record any additional publications 23 that you've published that are not in your CV. 24 A. No additional publications. 25 Q. Now, these peer-reviewed articles, it looks 16 1 like -- let me see -- one, two, three, four, five -- 2 five. Did I count right? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. This is in Exhibit 2 of your CV again. All of 5 those are peer reviewed, correct? 6 A. All these are peer reviewed. 7 Q. And what do you mean and understand by peer 8 reviewed? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 A. Peer review is where an article is sent by a 11 journal to external reviewers who are other scholars in 12 the field. 13 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Are they generally unknown, in 14 other words, kept anonymous during the review process? 15 A. Yes. Generally, yes. For all of these cases, 16 yes. 17 Q. And was your identity also, as much as 18 possible, kept anonymous vis-a-vis the reviewers? 19 A. That's my understanding. I'm not certain that 20 that's the case. Sometimes journals do not observe a 21 double blind review process. 22 Q. That was going to be my follow-up -- I'm sorry. 23 I interrupted you. Could you please restate that? 24 A. Sometimes journals do not observe a double 25 blind process. So it is possible that journals -- 17 1 journal reviewers knew my name. It's often -- in a small 2 field, it's pretty easy to infer who an author is. 3 Q. Sure. So let me just summarize, if possible. 4 A double blind peer-review process means that both the 5 author of an article and the outside reviewers of the 6 author -- of the article remain anonymous to each other, 7 correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And to the best of your knowledge, these 10 peer-reviewed articles were double blind peer reviewed? 11 A. To the best of my knowledge. My expectation is 12 that they were all double blind peer reviewed. 13 Q. Have you ever published articles that are not 14 peer reviewed? 15 A. Articles, no. 16 Q. Textbook chap- -- go ahead. I'm sorry. 17 A. On articles, no. I've done some journalistic 18 writing, but that's, I think, a different matter. 19 Q. In this book chapter you've listed in your CV, 20 "Consonance and Dissonance," do you see where that is on 21 the -- it looks like second page of Exhibit 2? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Was that peer reviewed? 24 A. That was editor reviewed. 25 Q. And could you describe that process in brief 18 1 for the record? 2 A. Editor review is -- is a standard that is often 3 used for edited collections that are published as books 4 where book chapters are solicited from authors by a team 5 of editors, and the pieces are reviewed by the editors. 6 Q. And I believe you said you had -- how did you 7 describe your non-peer reviewed publication efforts? 8 Something like journalistic or popular or something of 9 that nature? 10 A. Yeah. Journalistic writing. 11 Q. Where are those in your CV, if they are? 12 A. They should be in other writings. 13 Q. Is that this portion on the bottom of Page 2? 14 A. Yes. The -- yeah. The bottom two items, in 15 The Wire and icareifyoulisten.com. Yeah. Those are -- 16 those are -- those are journalistic writings. 17 Q. And then what is the History of Music Theory 18 blog? You've listed a publication under other writings, 19 "Colonial Organology and Ornithology in Richard Ligon's 20 Acoustics of Anthropological Difference." Did I read 21 that right? 22 A. Correct. Yes. That is a blog post that 23 solicits short pieces, short reflections having to do 24 with the history of music theory. 25 Q. Okay. Do you retain any kind of institutional 19 1 affiliation with Wesleyan University? 2 A. Nope. 3 Q. When did your association with Wesleyan end? 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. My association with Wesleyan University ended 6 when my visiting appointment was over in May -- let's see 7 -- 2019. 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Sorry if I pause between 9 exhibits. It's because I'm keeping track of them and 10 keeping track of their files names so I can circulate 11 them eventually to the reporter. 12 Are you familiar with a music theory journal 13 called Spectrum? 14 A. You are referring to Music Theory Spectrum. 15 Yes. 16 Q. Can you describe what Music Theory Spectrum is 17 for the record, please? 18 A. For the record, Music Theory Spectrum is, I 19 believe, one of the official publications of the Society 20 for Music Theory. 21 Q. What's the Society for Music Theory? 22 A. The Society for Music Theory is a professional 23 society of music theorists. 24 Q. Do you belong to the Society for Music Theory? 25 A. I am -- I am currently a member of the SMT. 20 1 That is the Society for Music Theory. 2 Q. And I believe you just used its acronym SMT, 3 right? 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. So if we say "SMT" we'll both understand we're 6 refer to Society for Musical Theory, right? 7 A. Correct. Music -- 8 Q. Thank you. Society for Music Theory just for 9 the record. Thank you. 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. How important is the Society for Music Theory 12 in your field? 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 Go ahead. 15 A. It is -- it is the primary U.S.-based 16 professional association and conference organizing body 17 in the field. 18 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And you consider yourself a 19 music theorist, right? 20 A. At times. I certainly -- 21 Q. How about -- 22 A. -- teach in the music theory departments. 23 Q. Okay. Do you teach classes in music theory? 24 A. I teach classes in music theory. 25 Q. Did your -- do your publications -- your 21 1 academic publications engage in the field of music 2 theory? 3 A. Some of them primarily do, yes. 4 Q. Do you have graduate students in the field of 5 music theory? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Can you describe the position that Spectrum has 8 in the field of music theory among people such as 9 yourself? 10 MS. QUIMBY: Objection. 11 A. Sure. I would say -- would say Spectrum -- 12 Music Theory Spectrum is one of three flagship journals. 13 The others would be the journal for music theory -- 14 sorry -- Journal of Music Theory and Music Theory Online. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Are those all published by SMT? 16 A. They are not. 17 Q. Which ones are published by the Society for 18 Music Theory? 19 A. Music Theory Spectrum and Music Theory Online 20 are officially affiliated with the SMT. 21 Q. And what is the third one, if you could state 22 that again, please? 23 A. The Journal of Music Theory, JMT. 24 Q. What professional society, if any, is that 25 associated with? 22 1 A. No professional society. 2 Q. Who publishes it? 3 A. Duke University Press. 4 Q. Who -- who edits it, if you know? 5 A. I am -- I do not know who the current editor 6 is. 7 Q. Okay. Do you know who the actual publisher of 8 Spectrum is? 9 A. That I do not know. 10 Q. Have you published in Spectrum by any chance? 11 We could back to your CV, but I figured I'd just ask you 12 because you must know. 13 A. I've published a book review in Music Theory 14 Spectrum. 15 Q. Have you ever had a chance to peruse their 16 website for their standards of publication? 17 A. Specifically, no, I have not. But I -- there 18 are certain kinds of assumptions that one makes about the 19 standards of publication at a flagship journal. 20 Q. What are the standards that you assume are 21 applied by Spectrum? 22 A. Double blind peer review for all research 23 articles and editor based review for things like book 24 reviews, concert reviews, or conference reports. 25 Q. And while we're at it, do you -- is there any 23 1 meaningful distinction in your mind between the 2 publication of papers in a symposium and in a commentary? 3 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you know? 5 A. Difference between papers in a symposium and a 6 commentary? I'm not sure I understand the question. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Well, have you -- have you done 8 -- well, there has been a distinction made, for instance, 9 by -- I'm just going to represent to you for the record 10 by an ad hoc panel between symposia and commentary. I'm 11 asking if you know the distinction between those two 12 scholarly kinds of publication? 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 A. I mean, my impression is that commentary is a 15 far more informal thing. A symposium I would assume -- 16 having never published in a symposium myself, my 17 assumption is that a symposium is a collection of 18 research articles that circulate or orbit around a 19 certain particular topic. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Any particular standards 21 for symposia that you're aware of in your field? 22 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 23 A. Not -- not that I know of as consistent rules, 24 per se, for symposia. 25 (Exhibit No. 3 marked.) 24 1 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. I'm going to introduce 2 into the record Exhibit 3. And, Professor Chung, first 3 I'm going to take you through the document to introduce 4 it to you, and then I'm going to ask you some questions 5 about it. 6 The first page is -- 7 MS. QUIMBY: I'm sorry to interrupt. I 8 can't even begin to try to read this. 9 MR. ALLEN: It's too small, is that what 10 you're saying? 11 MS. QUIMBY: Yeah. I'm sorry if that 12 wasn't clear. I can't read it. 13 MR. ALLEN: I'll tell you what, why don't 14 I -- can we go off the record, please. 15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 9:31 a.m. We 16 are off the record. 17 (Recess from 9:31 a.m. to 9:33 a.m.) 18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 9:33 a.m. 19 We are on the record. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So this exhibit marked as 21 Exhibit 3 for the record is a complication of two 22 websites and one journal article concerning the journal 23 Spectrum which we have just been discussing. 24 The first page is from the website of the 25 Society for Music Theory. In fact, you can see in the 25 1 lower left-hand corner, which I'm highlighting here on 2 the screen, the URL says SocietyMusicTheory.org. Do you 3 see that, Professor Chung? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. The second is a printout of a website Oxford 6 University Press, which also addresses Music Theory 7 Spectrum. And if you'll see the URL here is 8 AcademicOUP.com. Do you see that down at the bottom of 9 Page 2? 10 A. Correct. Yes. 11 Q. And do you understand OUP is an abbreviation 12 for Oxford University Press? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So does that help inform you that Oxford 15 University Press publishes Music Theory Spectrum? 16 A. Yeah. I believe that's correct. 17 Q. Okay. Well -- and just to sew that up, you 18 don't have any reason to believe that Oxford University 19 Press does not publish Music Theory Spectrum, right? 20 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 21 A. My -- yeah. My understanding was that the 22 change -- that there was a change of press in some recent 23 years. So previously they were published by, I believe, 24 the University of California Press. I -- I access the 25 journal online, so -- you know. 26 1 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Would that be through SMT or 2 through Oxford? 3 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 4 A. Accessing the journal? Through neither. It's 5 through the University's -- University of North Texas's 6 library. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Oh. Okay. So I'll just 8 represent to you that after the website that is printed 9 out from the Oxford University Press, I've included a 10 table of contents from fall 2021 journal of the Society 11 for Music Theory Spectrum. Then after that is an article 12 which was published in that volume in the fall of 2021 by 13 Philip Ewell called "Music Theory's White Racial Frame." 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. We're not -- we're obviously not going to read 16 this all into the record. But I'm just showing you that 17 that's the nature [audio cut out]. 18 I would like to go back to the first page of 19 exhibit number -- I believe we're up to 3. Specific 20 declaration of the review process on this printout of the 21 web page for the society for music -- Society for Music 22 Theory concerning Spectrum. 23 A. Was there -- was there a question? I'm sorry. 24 Q. Yes. Can you identify any specific declaration 25 of the review process on the website of the Society of 27 1 Music Theory concerning the journal Spectrum -- 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) -- in Exhibit 3? 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. In Exhibit 3? In the material provided? 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Correct. Again, I'm just 7 asking you about the Society of Music Theory portion of 8 Exhibit 3, which is the first page. 9 A. Only the first page? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. Why only the first page? 12 Q. Because that -- that first page is from the 13 Society for Music Theory's website, not from the Oxford 14 University Press website, which I'm going to ask you 15 about next. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. So I could just ask you to address -- 18 A. No -- no review information on the first page. 19 Q. Okay. Now we're going to go to the Oxford 20 University Press. I'm just going to direct your 21 attention to what I've highlighted here for the purposes 22 of your testimony. It says, after one or two bullet 23 points, "Instructions to authors. Music Theory Spectrum 24 practices blind review. For this reason, authors should 25 avoid identifying themselves, directly or indirectly, in 28 1 submissions" -- "in the submission itself," confirming 2 "such identification to an accompanying cover letter" -- 3 or excuse me -- "confining such identification to an 4 accompanying cover letter." 5 At least on the second try did I read that 6 correctly? 7 A. I believe so. 8 Q. And is it your understanding, then, that the 9 Oxford University Press does identify that Spectrum 10 articles are to be blind peer reviewed? 11 A. For articles, correct. 12 Q. Yes. I am now going to skip down to Music 13 Theory Spectrum, the journal of the Society for Music 14 Theory. On this table of contents, do you find anything 15 suggesting that the article of Philip Ewell, which is 16 included in this section here starting at Page 324, is 17 not peer reviewed? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. Do I find anything to suggest that it is not 20 peer reviewed? 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Correct. 22 A. The fact that it's a colloquy raises the 23 potential that it's not peer reviewed. 24 Q. Does the title page say that it's not peer 25 reviewed? 29 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. It does not. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Would it be your expectation 4 that the title page would specify that articles are not 5 peer reviewed if, in fact, they are not? 6 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 7 A. Well, implicitly -- implicitly it is specified 8 that the -- you know, the six pieces appearing before the 9 word "colloquy" are peer reviewed. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) How is that implicitly stated? 11 A. Because it's not stated explicitly. 12 Q. Okay. So you agree that it's not stated 13 explicitly that the colloquy is not peer reviewed, 14 correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And I'm just going to call your attention to 17 Philip Ewell's article. Do you see Page 324 just as the 18 table of contents suggests? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And this is "Music Theory's White Racial 21 Frame"? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. The title? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And just to back up, did you attend the 2019 30 1 conference of the Society for Music Theory? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. That would have been shortly after you joined 4 the University of North Texas, correct? 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. Do you remember it being in the early weeks of 7 November? 8 A. Early weeks of November 2019. 9 Q. You wouldn't happen to remember the days on 10 which the conference fell, would you? 11 A. Well, every year the conference falls on a 12 Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. 13 Q. Do you remember it being the first week of 14 November? 15 A. I am uncertain as to whether it was the first 16 week or the second week of November. 17 Q. I'm sorry, we've just had trouble figuring out 18 exactly when it took place. That's why I ask. 19 Did you personally sit in on the plenary 20 address of Professor Philip Ewell of Hunter College in 21 New York? 22 A. I did. 23 Q. How was the paper received? 24 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 25 A. The paper was received with -- with a polite 31 1 reception. Nothing unusual about its reception. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you recall a standing 3 ovation? 4 A. I personally do not recall whether the ovation 5 was standing, not standing. 6 Q. Okay. Do you recall any opportunity for people 7 to criticize Professor Ewell's plenary address "Music 8 Theory's White Racial Frame"? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 A. There is always an opportunity to address a 11 plenary address. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) When was that afforded at the 13 Society for Music Theory in their annual conference in 14 2019? 15 A. During free time. That time is not, per se, 16 listed on the program. 17 Q. What do you mean "free time"? What does that 18 mean at the conference? 19 A. Because conference sessions do not run 24 hours 20 of the day. People take time to be out of conference 21 sessions and speak amongst themselves. 22 Q. So other than this free time, was there any 23 opportunity for people to formally critique Philip 24 Ewell's plenary address? 25 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 32 1 A. Formally, not that I know of. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. So I'm just going to 3 ask, given that we have in Exhibit 3 the article, is it 4 your understanding that this article in Society for Music 5 Theory was the publication of the talk [audio cut out] 19 6 Society for Music Theory plenary address? 7 MS. QUIMBY: I'm sorry, halfway you -- you 8 just cut out. I only caught part of that question. 9 MR. ALLEN: Sure. Sure. 10 So I'll ask the court reporter to strike 11 that, and I'll ask the question again. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Was it your understanding that 13 Philip Ewell published his plenary address at the 2019 14 Society for Music Theory conference as this paper "Music 15 Theory's White Racial Frame" in this 2021 volume of 16 Society for Music Theory's Spectrum? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. That is my understanding. 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) If there was going to be a note 20 stating that this paper was not peer reviewed, where 21 would it appear in the article? 22 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 23 A. A note stating that it was not peer reviewed? 24 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Yes. If one was to exist in 25 such a publication, where would it be? 33 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. Such a note would -- would not be customary. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. And here at the bottom 4 you see this that I've highlighted just for the purpose 5 of drawing your attention to it? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. It says, "This article is a transcript of my 8 2019 Society for Music Theory plenary paper." He goes on 9 to say, "Aside from adding bibliographic citations, I 10 have adjusted the text minimally as possible." And for a 11 complete -- a more complete version he refers to another 12 publication, which is apparently linked under Ewell 2020. 13 Did I read that right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So you would agree with me that doesn't 16 indicate that this is not a peer-reviewed article, right? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. That it -- this does not indicate that it was 19 peer reviewed; is that the question? 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Yes, that is the question. 21 A. Yeah. There's no indication of the peer-review 22 process to which this was subjected. 23 Q. And following up on your previous testimony, is 24 that -- would you expect that? Is it normal? Let me 25 strike that and just ask it. 34 1 Is it your understanding that would be normal 2 for such a publication? 3 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 4 A. For a piece like this that's a transcript of a 5 well-known talk, I don't think that scholars in the 6 field, professionals in the field would expect a peer -- 7 for such a piece to go through the same kind of 8 peer-review process that an article would under blind 9 submission. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. I'm just going to skip 11 to the back without spending more time on this. There's 12 another blurb at the bottom of the article at the very 13 end. This would be on the 11th page of Exhibit 3 and 14 Page 329. It says, "Music Theory Spectrum, Volume 43, 15 Issue 2, Page 324 to 29." It gives an ISSN number and 16 also an electronic ISSN number. It has a copyright 17 signification and says, "Published by Oxford University 18 Press" and so forth. "All rights reserved." 19 Can I just have you confirm that that also does 20 not indicate whether peer review applied to this article? 21 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 22 A. This page does not indicate peer-review 23 procedures. 24 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Thanks. And you don't recall 25 anyone objecting to Philip Ewell's publication of his 35 1 plenary address in Spectrum under these conditions, do 2 you? 3 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 4 A. I am not privy to conversations like that about 5 this piece. 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you recall anyone 7 circulating an open letter condemning Philip Ewell for 8 publishing something which didn't clearly indicate 9 whether it was peer reviewed or not? 10 A. I have no knowledge of whether such a letter 11 existed or didn't exist. 12 Q. Did anyone accuse Philip Ewell of racism for 13 publishing under those conditions, that he published that 14 2019 plenary address in Spectrum? 15 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 16 A. I do recall -- I believe I recall hearsay that 17 Philip had an ax to grind against European music 18 theorists of the past. 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So that's -- that wasn't my 20 question. Maybe I phrased it unclearly. 21 Did it come to your attention that anyone 22 accused Philip Ewell particularly of racism for 23 publishing in Spectrum under the conditions that he 24 published his 2019 plenary address? 25 A. Strictly speaking, no, I recall no such thing. 36 1 Q. Thank you. That would be absurd, wouldn't it? 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 A. No. In fact, it would be quite understandable. 4 I can imagine scholars accusing Philip Ewell of being 5 racist towards white European music theorists of the 6 past. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) For publishing without peer 8 review? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 A. I -- I don't see how that question follows. 11 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So I'm just going to represent 12 to you that Philip Ewell, himself, has testified that 13 that article was published without double blind peer 14 review. You don't recall anyone ever accusing of Philip 15 Ewell of racism for publishing the 2019 plenary address 16 without peer review? 17 A. I don't see why anybody would be accused of 18 racism for that specific reason. 19 Q. Right. And that was -- my follow-up question 20 was: That would be absurd, correct? 21 A. Correct. 22 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 23 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Are you also aware of the 24 journal published by the University of North Texas Press 25 called Theoria or Theoria? I'm not sure how it's 37 1 pronounced actually. 2 A. I believe it's Theoria. Yes, I'm aware of that 3 publication. 4 Q. Have you ever submitted anything for 5 publication in Theoria? 6 A. I was solicited to submit a publication. 7 Q. Who solicited your publication in Theoria? 8 A. That was the editor Frank Heidleberger. 9 Q. When was this? 10 A. This was in late -- well, early -- yeah. Late 11 autumn of 2022. 12 Q. So roughly about two years ago? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And in your experience as an academic and a 15 music theorist, is that normal for an editor to solicit 16 contributions to his or her journal? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. When the -- when the contributions are -- let's 19 see -- like reprints of talks, lectures that take place, 20 this is a known practice, yes. 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Which was your talk -- I'm 22 sorry go ahead. 23 A. Yes. That was the nature of my submission to 24 that publication. 25 Q. I was just going to follow-up with that very 38 1 question. 2 So could you just for the record briefly 3 describe the nature of the piece that he was soliciting 4 from you? 5 A. Yes. The nature of the piece that he was 6 soliciting which I wrote was the transcript of a talk 7 that explained early modern keyboard tunings and how they 8 related to changing understandings of the natural world 9 in early modern Europe. 10 Q. Did you end submitting that to Theoria? 11 A. I did. 12 Q. Is that in press? 13 A. Yes, it has been published. 14 Q. I'm sorry, I'm just going to go back to your CV 15 which is Exhibit 2, just put that up again on screen. 16 MR. ALLEN: Mary, once again I'll try to 17 drop this in chat this time. 18 MS. QUIMBY: This is easier. The font is a 19 little bit bigger. 20 MR. ALLEN: I know. That should come 21 through. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So is that one of the articles 23 that has since been published in the meantime that you -- 24 since I think it was January 2024 that you drafted this 25 CV, Professor Chung? 39 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. That is a publication that has been published. 3 It's not a peer-reviewed article. It's not something I 4 would list as a peer-reviewed article. It's not the same 5 scope of publication as a peer-reviewed article. 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So that was not peer reviewed 7 that you published in Theoria? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Is there any reason you don't list it on your 10 CV? 11 A. Because it was not ready at the time of this 12 CV. 13 Q. Uh-huh. Where would you sort it into your CV 14 if you were to list it today? 15 A. I would probably make a new section for it 16 under published conference proceedings or some equivalent 17 heading. 18 Q. Uh-huh. And was it in the 2022 volume of 19 Theoria that it came out? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Which volume? 22 A. 2024. 23 Q. Okay. So it must have come out very recently, 24 right? 25 A. Very recently. The past handful of months. I 40 1 don't remember when. 2 Q. And do you understand that that's the usual 3 practice of Theoria, to, from time to time, solicit 4 conference proceedings as you've described without peer 5 review? 6 A. I do not know what their normal practices are. 7 It's not a journal with which I'm deeply familiar. 8 Q. Are you aware that Philip Ewell published in 9 Theoria? 10 A. I do not know whether he has or has not 11 published in Theoria. 12 Q. You do know Theoria is published by the 13 University of North Texas Press, right? 14 A. Many things are published by the University of 15 North Texas Press. 16 Q. That wasn't my question. 17 You know that Theoria is published by the 18 University of North Texas Press, right? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Thanks. 21 Have you ever heard of anyone condemn Theoria 22 for publishing articles without peer review? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. I have not heard such -- such a thing. 25 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And I believe you referred to 41 1 the defendant Frank Heidleberger as the editor of 2 Theoria? 3 A. Yes. That is my correct understanding. 4 Q. Has anyone ever accused Frank Heidleberger of 5 racism for publishing articles without peer review to 6 your knowledge? 7 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 8 A. To my knowledge I do not know whether he has or 9 has not. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) When you published your article 11 in Theoria, did you check Theoria's editorial practices 12 to determine whether peer review was used by the journal? 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 A. The assumption -- when the editor Frank 15 Heidleberger solicited the pieces, it was made clear 16 that -- I believe it was made clear that -- that the 17 articles would be -- would not be peer reviewed, because 18 they are not, strictly speaking, articles. They are 19 conference proceedings. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Was it stated in your published 21 version of that article in Theoria that it was not peer 22 reviewed? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. Typically that -- that kind of thing, it would 25 be understood it's not peer reviewed, because, again, 42 1 it's published conference proceedings. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Who -- who would understand 3 that? 4 A. People who know how to read journals in the 5 field. 6 Q. Other academics in music theory? 7 A. Other academics in music theory. 8 Q. And that's not unusual in your field of music 9 theory, right? 10 MS. QUIMBY: Object -- 11 A. Not unusual for more informal types of 12 publications such as conference proceedings, publications 13 of talks that were delivered originally at a conference, 14 correct. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And, again, just like Philip 16 Ewell's publication in Spectrum, that did not raise a 17 stir simply because it was published without peer review, 18 did it? 19 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 20 A. To my knowledge, no such objections were 21 raised. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You weren't the object of an 23 open letter by the Society for Music Theory simply 24 because you published something in Theoria without peer 25 review, right? 43 1 A. Correct. 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So, Professor Chung, one thing 4 I forgot to tell you at the beginning is: If at any time 5 you want a break, just say so. I don't -- 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. I obviously don't want you answering questions 8 if you're uncomfortable or you need to go to the bathroom 9 or something of that nature. I am going to transition 10 now talking about your relationship with Professor 11 Timothy Jackson, who is the plaintiff in this case. 12 A. Sure. 13 Q. We have been about an hour. So I was going to 14 ask if you would like a break. If you don't, we can just 15 keep going. 16 A. I'm happy to continue. 17 Q. Okay. 18 MS. QUIMBY: I would like to ask for a 19 break shortly. Maybe in the next 15 minutes. Is that 20 okay, or would you prefer to break now? 21 THE WITNESS: We can get -- sorry. 22 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. We're on the record. I 23 bet we can get through this in about 15 minutes or so. 24 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) It's just a -- I'm just going 25 to ask about the nature of your relationship with Timothy 44 1 Jackson without getting into exhibits and so forth. 2 Okay, Professor Chung? 3 A. Sure. Fine by me. 4 Q. Sure. Thank you. 5 So first question is: Could you just please 6 explain for the record your relationship to Timothy 7 Jackson since you joined the faculty of the University of 8 North Texas? 9 A. We are employed by the same department in the 10 same university. His office is a handful of doors down 11 the hallway and around the corner from mine. 12 Q. What are your interactions with Timothy Jackson 13 as a faculty member at the University of North Texas? 14 A. I haven't had very many interactions with 15 Professor Jackson. As you recall, my hire was in 2019. 16 And shortly after, you know, we were beset by the COVID 17 pandemic and I really interacted with none of my 18 colleagues very much for a very long time due to the 19 unusual conditions of the -- of the COVID pandemic. 20 Q. That must have been difficult to start your 21 position -- your first position as an assistant professor 22 under those circumstances? 23 A. Yes. It was very unusual and unexpected. 24 Q. I'm happy that it seems that you're thriving, 25 Professor Chung, despite all of those setbacks. 45 1 A. Thank you. 2 Q. Did you ever work together with Timothy Jackson 3 on anything, excepting any work you might have done on 4 the Schenker controversy which we'll get to in a minute? 5 A. Other than serving together on some student 6 examination committees for students' doctoral exams. 7 Other than that, we've had no collaborative projects or 8 anything of the like. 9 Q. No joint publications of any sort? 10 A. No joint publications. 11 Q. What was Timothy Jackson's participation in the 12 student dissertation committees? Is that what you 13 described? 14 A. Exam committees. These are -- 15 Q. Yes. 16 A. Students -- doctoral students have what are 17 called qualifying exams, exams that they take to move on 18 to the stage in which they write their PhD dissertations. 19 These -- these involve oral examinations on student 20 written essays. And Professor Jackson and myself were on 21 a handful of examining committees for one or two of our 22 students during the past academic year, '23 to '24. 2023 23 to 2024. 24 Q. Can you describe your direct experience of 25 Timothy Jackson's demeanor during those exams? 46 1 A. Polite and professional. 2 Q. Are you aware of any incident in which Timothy 3 Jackson was extorting students in any capacity, way, 4 shape, or form? 5 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 6 A. Extorting students? I have no knowledge of 7 such phenomenon. 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Can you identify any specific 9 racist actions that you have direct knowledge of that 10 Timothy Jackson has engaged in? 11 A. I know of no such actions. 12 Q. If I said the same with regard to, quote, 13 racist behaviors, would your answer be the same? 14 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 15 A. I know of no such accusations. 16 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) I'm not asking about 17 accusations, which we'll get to in a minute. I'm asking 18 about specific, quote, racist behaviors that you have 19 direct knowledge of concerning Timothy Jackson's, quote, 20 behavior? 21 A. I have no direct knowledge of such actions. 22 Q. Have you learned of any actions that are, 23 quote, racist that Timothy Jackson allegedly engaged in 24 from graduate students? 25 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 47 1 A. I have no direct knowledge. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Does that mean you have no 3 direct knowledge of a graduate student coming to tell you 4 about them? So please understand I'm trying to make a 5 distinction here between direct knowledge which you may 6 have witnessed personally and something that a graduate 7 student might have told you about. 8 So do you mean -- and I'm just trying to clarify 9 your answer, if we could. Do you mean you have no 10 knowledge of a graduate student coming to you and 11 identifying a specific action that Timothy Jackson 12 committed that was, quote, racist? 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 A. That is correct. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. And if I asked the same 16 question but just substituted behaviors for actions, 17 would your answer be the same? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. My answer would be the same. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Thank you. 21 MR. ALLEN: So I was going to transition to 22 talking about the now rather famous Journal of 23 Schenkerian Studies, but you and your attorney had 24 requested a short break, and I think we got through that 25 section in less than ten minutes. So how about now? 48 1 MS. QUIMBY: Yes, please. Thank you. 2 MR. ALLEN: Could we go off the record, 3 please. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 10:03 a.m. 5 We are off the record. 6 (Recess from 10:03 a.m. to 10:13 a.m.) 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 10:13 a.m. 8 We are on the record. 9 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Thank you, Professor Chung. I 10 wanted to ask you now about the Journal of Schenkerian 11 Studies. Can you explain your relationship to the 12 Journal of Schenkerian Studies from the time you joined 13 the faculty at the University of North Texas in 2019? 14 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 15 A. I've had no relationship with the Journal of 16 Schenkerian Studies. 17 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Did you have any interactions 18 with the editorial staff of the Journal of Schenkerian 19 Studies? 20 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 21 A. The editorial staff are students and colleagues 22 in the department. So, yes, I have interacted with them. 23 Not in regards to the Journal of Schenkerian Studies, per 24 se, I believe other than the emails about -- about -- 25 asking about whether to do a colloquy. I'm sure you know 49 1 what I'm talking about. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) By that do you mean the call 3 for papers -- soliciting papers from the Society for 4 Music Theory? 5 A. Yes. Yes. That -- 6 Q. Do you recall -- 7 A. I'm sorry. To my knowledge that's the only 8 action I've had. 9 Q. Okay. And just for the record, that was in the 10 winter and early springtime period of 2019, 2020? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. So describe, if you can remember, the process 13 in which you participated in the formulation or 14 contributed in any way to the call for papers that was 15 issued by the Journal of Schenkerian Studies that you 16 just described? 17 A. Sure. I did contribute to the formation of the 18 call of papers. I simply expressed my support that 19 the -- that considering to do such an issue would -- 20 would be something that I think that I myself and other 21 members of the field would have been interested in. 22 Q. Do you recall when the call for papers went out 23 approximately? 24 A. I do not recall. I was not involved in 25 disseminating the call for papers. 50 1 Q. Okay. So after it went out, did you have any 2 further interactions with the journal until objections 3 began to erupt within the Society for Music Theory? 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. I -- I do not believe so. 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. I'm just going to mark 7 for the record as Exhibit No. 4 -- 8 MR. ALLEN: Am I correct, Madam Court 9 Reporter, that I'm up to 4? 10 THE REPORTER: Yes, sir. 11 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to mark for the 12 record as Exhibit 4 an email that's captioned Response to 13 Ewell? It's an email dated December 11, 2019. 14 (Exhibit No. 4 marked.) 15 THE REPORTER: We have a Cari Jacoby who 16 wants to join. 17 MS. QUIMBY: She's with UNT. 18 MR. ALLEN: Who is that, Mary? 19 MS. QUIMBY: I'm sorry if you didn't hear 20 that. She is with the office of general counsel at UNT 21 with Renaldo. 22 MR. ALLEN: That's fine. 23 MS. QUIMBY: I'm sorry, I wasn't sure if 24 she would be joining us. 25 MR. ALLEN: That's -- no. That's fine. I 51 1 just had -- I'm sure you've brought her to my attention 2 before. I just didn't recognize the name. Sorry. 3 MS. QUIMBY: No problem. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So back to Exhibit No. 4. Is 5 it -- well, let me present just you. You'll see over 6 here it's a four-page exhibit, Professor Chung. 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. And I'm just going to scroll through it. I'm 9 not going to ask about all of it, but I don't want you to 10 think that I'm hiding something. This is a long email by 11 Timothy Jackson. You'll see his name is signed at the 12 end, at least electronically. Do you see that? 13 A. Uh-huh. Correct. Yes. 14 Q. He seems to be talking about some interactions 15 he's had with an individual named Eric Wen. 16 A. Uh-huh. Yes. 17 Q. Do you see this guy? 18 A. Yes, I see the name. 19 Q. Incidentally, do you know Eric Wen? 20 A. I do not know Eric Wen. I know that he exists. 21 I know his name. That is all. 22 Q. You don't know anything else about him? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. So I'm presenting you with this email 25 because you'll recognize you're on it here in the 52 1 recipient line, Andrew Chung, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. This is your email that you use to conduct 4 business as an assistant professor of the University of 5 North Texas? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. So in this email of December 11, 2019, Timothy 8 Jackson writes to you, among others who are in this 9 recipient line, "I have approached a number of 10 Schenkerians directly with request for comment on Ewell's 11 SMT presentation. We will receive publishable replies 12 from at least four outside distinguished scholars. Not 13 from Eric Wen, however, see below." 14 Did I read that correctly? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Do you remember getting this email? 17 A. I don't -- I -- my memory does not serve me 18 well enough to recall having received it or not received 19 it. I -- I believe the, you know, exhibit is a truthful 20 one. 21 Q. Do you remember in this time frame -- in this 22 general time frame Timothy Jackson raising the issue with 23 you and other colleagues of yours that there would be a 24 solicitation of papers for comment on Ewell's SMT 25 presentation? 53 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. I -- I believe I do recall. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And this SMT presentation, is 4 it understood or did you understand at the time that that 5 was referring to the plenary address at the 2019 SMT 6 conference? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. As much as you can remember, do you remember 9 your response to this initiative? 10 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 11 A. I don't recall whether I had a response or not 12 having a response other than expressing openness to the 13 idea of, you know, doing such a colloquy, which I believe 14 was before this date. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Sure. And I think we'll get to 16 that in a second. 17 And I just want to ask some general questions. 18 Before July of 2020 did you suggest that Philip Ewell 19 should be contacted directly to solicit a response from 20 him individually to the -- what you were calling a 21 colloquium or a colloquy or what eventually was published 22 as the symposium in the Journal of Schenkerian Studies 23 Volume 12? 24 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 25 A. I had no approval or disapproval of such a 54 1 measure. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So you never -- you never 3 announced an objection before July of 2020 to the way in 4 which papers were solicited for Volume 12 of the Journal 5 of Schenkerian Studies? 6 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 7 A. I did not. 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Before July of 2020 did you 9 express any objection to the symposium being published 10 without double blind peer review? 11 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 12 A. I don't recall objecting or not objecting. I 13 don't recall objecting to it being published without 14 double blind peer review. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) If you did, would you have put 16 that in email? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. As the Journal of Schenkerian Studies is very 19 far outside of my business, I -- if I had held that view, 20 I would -- would have kept it to myself. 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Did you have that view at the 22 time that you kept to yourself? 23 A. I don't -- 24 Q. I'm talking before July 2020. 25 A. I cannot -- I don't recall. 55 1 Q. Okay. What was your relationship to the 2 student -- the graduate student at the University of 3 North Texas Levi Walls at this time? And I'm talking, 4 again, about before July of 2020. 5 A. At this time Levi was simply, you know, one of 6 a number of students in the department. I had -- I had 7 no relationship with Levi other than knowing his name, 8 knowing what he looked like, seeing him in the hallways 9 from time to time. 10 Q. Did you ever discuss the Journal of Schenkerian 11 Studies with Levi Walls before July 2020? 12 A. I did not. 13 Q. Now, it's my understanding that Levi Walls is 14 now a mentee of yours. Is that accurate? 15 A. Yes, that is correct. 16 Q. Is he doing his dissertation under your 17 direction? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. I'm sorry, you froze. Can you just restate the 20 answer for the record? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Thank you. What's -- is there an official 23 title for that in the -- in the MHTE division? Is it 24 dissertation advisor? 25 A. Yeah. I mean, there are a number of words that 56 1 are used to mean such a position of supervision. 2 Dissertation advisor, dissertation supervisor, 3 dissertation director. I can't recall which term our 4 bylaws and so forth uses specifically, but these are 5 equivalent terms. 6 Q. But whatever it is, you are -- you serve that 7 function for the graduate student Levi Walls who is a PhD 8 candidate? 9 A. Yeah. Levi Walls. 10 Q. When did you become the dissertation advisor to 11 Levi Walls? 12 A. I agreed during, I believe, the fall of 2020. 13 Q. It would have been after a controversy erupted 14 over the Journal of Schenkerian Studies in July 2020? 15 A. You cut out during the question. Please 16 repeat. 17 Q. Yes. Thank you. 18 You became Levi Walls dissertation advisor 19 shortly after the controversy that erupted around the 20 Journal of Schenkerian Studies around July 2020 then? 21 A. About five months after. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. Have you discussed with Levi Walls his 23 role in the Journal of Schenkerian Studies after becoming 24 his dissertation advisor? 25 A. Only to ask whether -- what -- what his title 57 1 was in the -- in Volume 12 of the journal. 2 Q. And what did he say? 3 A. I can't recall. I know that he -- he had an 4 official title. Assistant editor or student editor, 5 something of that sort. 6 Q. He hasn't discussed with you hints of helping 7 edit the journal in the summer and let's -- let's say 8 that 2019, 2020 time period? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Let me strike that question and 11 ask it more specifically. 12 So he hasn't discussed his experience of serving 13 on the editorial staff from, say, November of 2019 to 14 July of 2020 with you? 15 A. No. That is external to our advising 16 relationship. External to the topics of his research. 17 Q. When did you first learn that there was a 18 controversy surrounding Volume 12 of the Journal of 19 Schenkerian Studies? 20 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 21 A. I believe it was -- well, it was in the summer 22 of 2020. I believe in July. I noticed some rather 23 rancorous commentary on what was then known as Twitter 24 regarding Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 25 Studies. 58 1 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And that's the platform now 2 known as X, correct? 3 A. That is the platform now known as X. 4 Q. Are you -- do you maintain an X or Twitter 5 account yourself? 6 A. I do. 7 Q. Is that how you became aware of it, then, 8 through your own Twitter feed? 9 A. That is correct. 10 Q. I hope we can agree. I'll just refer to it as 11 Twitter, but we know that includes X as well. I don't 12 really care when the platform changed its name. Is that 13 -- is that okay, to have that understanding in your 14 testimony today? 15 A. Uh-huh. Understood. 16 Q. Thank you. So what did you begin to hear? 17 A. I began to hear -- I can't recall the specific 18 comments of these tweets, posts on the platform at the 19 moment. I remember that they expressed quite a bit of 20 disapprobation. On what specific points the Twitter 21 discourse was objecting to I cannot at this point recall 22 now that it's four years past. 23 Q. Do you know if those tweets that you were 24 getting in your feed have been produced in discovery in 25 this case? 59 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. I do not know whether they have or have not. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Have you ever provided any 4 tweets from your Twitter feed to your counsel so that 5 they could be provided in discovery? 6 A. I cannot recall. 7 Q. You can't recall because it didn't happen or 8 you can't recall because it may have happened and you've 9 forgotten? 10 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 11 A. I can't -- I can't recall because I may have 12 forgotten and I -- I don't believe that I provided tweets 13 to counsel. 14 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So I'm sorry, you don't believe 15 you did provide those to your counsel? 16 A. To the best of my knowledge I don't believe so. 17 Q. Okay. Was there specific content in Volume 12 18 that was particularly the object of these objections via 19 Twitter? 20 A. I can't recall the specific content of the 21 objections that were over Twitter in July 2020. 22 Q. Okay. If you had those tweets in front of you, 23 would that serve to refresh your memory? 24 A. Presumably, yes. 25 Q. And what -- so this is how you first learned of 60 1 it, through the social media platform Twitter? 2 A. True. 3 Q. Once you -- sorry. Go ahead. 4 A. Yes. Yes. Through social media Twitter. 5 Q. And so after that what -- what happened? 6 A. After that I wrote an email to my department to 7 some number of my department colleagues, I believe it was 8 not all of them, notifying -- notifying some number of 9 colleagues -- and I can't remember which ones they 10 were -- that there is some rancorous sentiment being 11 circulated over social media about the journal. 12 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge of any 13 policy of the University of North Texas that makes 14 Twitter some sort of editorial authority over the 15 journals published by the UNT Press? 16 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 17 A. Editorial authority, no. 18 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So, then, you notified your 19 colleagues I believe by email, you just said, and what -- 20 what happened then? 21 A. I recall that my colleagues agreed that it 22 could potentially be a cause for concern, and that was 23 what I recall happening subsequently. 24 Q. Do you know, as you sit here today, what the 25 journal was accused of doing? 61 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. I believe that the accusations had some kind of 3 objection to racially insensitive remarks. I can't 4 recall if the peer-review issue was -- was raised in the 5 Twitter discourse though. 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you know if remarks were 7 identified as -- what did you say, racially insensitive? 8 Is that how you put it? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. Which in particular, if you recall? 11 A. I don't recall Twitter -- the Twitter discourse 12 identifying particular remarks as such. 13 Q. Since you cut out, did you say you don't 14 recall -- could you just restate because I didn't hear 15 it. 16 A. I don't recall on Twitter that any content on 17 Twitter singled out particular marks or particular 18 paraphrases of remarks. 19 Q. And other than Twitter were particular 20 publications or statements in Volume 12 of the Journal of 21 Schenkerian Studies called out as racially insensitive? 22 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 23 A. At that time in 2000- -- July 2020, no 24 publications had yet -- no other publications had yet 25 responded. 62 1 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So is your answer you don't 2 recall any other specific content of Volume 12 of the 3 Journal of Schenkerian Studies at that time that was 4 being identified as particularly racist or racially 5 insensitive or however it was being put in the discourse 6 at that time? 7 A. At that time when -- when, you know, 8 expressions of disapproval were starting to circulate on 9 social media, no, I don't recall any other 10 publications -- 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. -- remarking on the journal. 13 Q. I'm going to take that down. Because I wanted 14 to bring up -- I'm not sure of where we are in the 15 record. 16 MR. ALLEN: Madam Court Reporter, are we on 17 Exhibit 5, please? 18 THE REPORTER: Yes, sir. 19 MR. ALLEN: Thank you. I'm going to mark 20 for the record as Exhibit 5 an email -- well, it begins 21 with an email of July 25, 2020, from Stephen Slottow to 22 various members of the faculty, and I believe you'll see 23 that you are also included, Professor Chung. 24 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. 25 MR. ALLEN: And I'm going to drop that -- 63 1 hold on. I will drop it in the chat. Let me -- before I 2 publish it to the record, I'm going to rename it so it's 3 clear. Again, Exhibit 5. 4 (Exhibit No. 5 marked.) 5 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Sorry about the delay. 6 Professor Chung, do you see Exhibit No. 5? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Like many emails, it sort of begins at the end, 9 so we're just going to skip down. Exhibit 5 begins with 10 an email from you, Andrew Chung, to Benjamin Graf, Diego 11 Cubero and Ellen Bakulina, on July 25, 2020, in the early 12 evening at 7:08 p.m. Did I read that caption directly? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Scan through this just to give you a sense what 15 we'll be talking about. You'll see the chain progresses. 16 Eventually additional commentators join. There's a 17 discussion by Levi Walls, Timothy Jackson, and then the 18 lead email is by Stephen Slottow to you, in addition to 19 another faculty and Levi Walls. Did I characterize that 20 more or less correctly? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. So if you'll allow me to start at the 23 end, you had referred to an email you sent once you 24 noticed things were beginning to -- I believe you said 25 become rancorous on Twitter, right? 64 1 A. Uh-huh. Correct. 2 Q. Is this that email to the best of your 3 remember? 4 A. This is -- this is the email to which I was 5 referring, yes. 6 Q. And just skipping forward, you say, "But via 7 Twitter I have been seeing that there has been some early 8 and vociferous pushback re: the new issue of JSS, with 9 concerns that Philip Ewell wasn't invited to respond and 10 that there is an anonymous contribution." 11 I read that portion correctly? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And by "JSS" we understand that we're referring 14 to Journal of Schenkerian Studies, right? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And did you continue to participate in this 17 conversation via email or otherwise? 18 A. There's -- there's a subsequent message from 19 me. Other than that, I don't believe any that I -- 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. -- was involved in. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. Proceedings after that point. 24 Q. Thank you. And do you recall your colleague 25 Ellen Bakulina saying that she had seen a similar 65 1 reaction on Facebook? This is the next email in the 2 chain. 3 A. I don't -- I don't recall it, per se. But 4 it's -- it's here in the email thread. Yes, I believe is 5 it. 6 Q. And do you have any knowledge of Facebook -- 7 the social media platform Facebook serving any role in 8 the editorial process of journals at the University of 9 North Texas Press? 10 A. I know of no such practice. 11 Q. Is Facebook a particularly scholarly forum? 12 A. It is not. 13 Q. And here's the second email from you, I 14 believe, a little bit later in the evening at 8:32. 15 "Please feel free to forward this message to anyone you 16 think would be appropriate." Right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. So is it fair to say that you were bringing 19 your colleagues -- to your colleagues attention this -- 20 what seemed to be a rapidly developing controversy? 21 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 22 A. Yes. A rapidly developing potential for 23 controversy. 24 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Did it develop into a 25 full-blown controversy? 66 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. I think that most people would agree that it 3 developed into -- into a point of contention, yes. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Thank you. So here's an email 5 on July 25 at about 9:00, 8:55 p.m., by Levi Walls. Do 6 you see that email in Exhibit 5? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And this is a student who would become your 9 graduate student or at least in your role as a 10 dissertation advisor. Can I ask you to read that email 11 carefully, please? 12 A. Okay. I'm finished reading. 13 Q. Sure. I just have a question in the first 14 sentence. Well, in the second sentence actually. He 15 says, "I just heard about this." Referring to what you 16 and Ellen Bakulina have identified. Is that your 17 understanding of the email? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Would you have received this email at the time? 20 A. I believe I did receive this, yes. 21 Q. I only ask because, unlike some of the other 22 emails, it doesn't seem to have the full received line on 23 it. 24 He then goes on, Mr. Walls, to say, "It's very 25 worrying, especially as I don't want my career to be 67 1 ruined before it properly began. I have a family to take 2 care of now. I'm also confused about what exactly people 3 want." 4 Did I read that right? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. How did you understand what Mr. Walls was 7 particularly afraid of at this time? 8 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 9 A. With the caveat that, you know, I don't have 10 omniscient access to the internal -- 11 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Sure. 12 A. -- cognition of others, I believe that Levi, in 13 his position as student editor or assistant editor or 14 editor of the journal, was worried about being -- 15 being -- about his reputation being jeopardized by 16 association with the -- the controversy in regards to the 17 journal. 18 Q. And have you and he talked about that 19 subsequently as his dissertation advisor? 20 A. I don't believe so. 21 Q. In your role as his dissertation advisor have 22 you witnessed any harm that has come to his career 23 because he participated in the Journal of Schenkerian 24 Studies? 25 MS. QUIMBY: Objection. 68 1 A. Not to my knowledge. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And did you understand this 3 email to be expressing his fear of some sort of, quote, 4 power differential between him and Professor Timothy 5 Jackson? 6 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 7 A. Power differential? I mean, there's always a 8 power differential between students and professors. 9 That's understood. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Sure. Do you -- do you 11 understand him to be expressing in this email, especially 12 did you understand at the time -- let me strike that 13 question, ask this. 14 Did you understand at the time that Mr. Levi 15 Walls was objecting to a so-called power differential 16 between him and Professor Jackson in this email? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. In this email I don't recall -- I -- I don't 19 believe that he was expressing sentiments related to a 20 power differential, no. 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Picking up on what you said 22 about the inherent difference between a dissertation 23 advisor and the student, the graduate student, that 24 there's an inherent power differential, that so-called 25 power differential exists between you and Mr. Walls now, 69 1 right? 2 A. In any student-teacher relationship, a power 3 differential exists. 4 Q. Sure. Is it your experience of Professor 5 Walls -- excuse me. Strike that, please. 6 Is it your experience of Mr. Walls that this 7 power differential prevents him from exercising his own 8 agency in your relationship to him? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 A. I mean, strictly speaking -- strictly speaking, 11 no. But teachers are -- you know, teachers are 12 considered -- are considered influential authorities on 13 topics. Students often feel pressure to take the advice 14 or take the recommendations of their professors. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) I'm talking about your direct 16 experience of Mr. Walls. In your experience with him as 17 his dissertation advisor, do you feel that he's reluctant 18 to speak his mind to you? 19 A. Not more than any other students. I -- you 20 know, students choose their words carefully around their 21 advisors if they're -- if they are smart. As they would 22 with any authorities in a supervisory capacity over them. 23 Q. And when you were a graduate student at Yale, 24 did this power differential affect you in your 25 relationship with your dissertation advisor? 70 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. Of course. This power differential, like I 3 said, is in every student-teacher relationship. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Would you state for the record 5 whether you believe that, quote, power differential 6 affected your ability to think independently in your own 7 dissertation 8 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 9 A. I don't believe that it affected my ability to 10 think independently. But, of course, I received advice 11 and cautions that I would not have known to be cognizant 12 of from the dissertation advisor who I had who was in a 13 position of greater power over me in that relationship. 14 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Is it fair to say that's 15 inherent in the mentor/mentee relationship? 16 A. That is inherent to the mentor/mentee 17 relationship. 18 Q. So your answer is yes? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Thank you. And just back to Mr. Walls, you 21 don't -- you don't have any reason to think that he's so 22 weak that he has no independent will as your dissertation 23 advisee, do you? 24 A. I have no reason to believe such a thing. 25 Q. Did you ever witness him to be bereft of an 71 1 independent will when he worked with [audio cut out]? 2 THE REPORTER: You cut out at the end. 3 MR. ALLEN: Let me rephrase. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Did you have any reason to 5 believe, at the time these emails were being sent back 6 and forth, that Mr. Walls was bereft of his independent 7 will in working with Professor Jackson? 8 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 9 A. I have no knowledge of the dynamics of -- of 10 Professor Jackson's advisory -- dissertation advisory 11 capacity, dissertation relationship -- dissertation 12 advisory relationship with Levi Walls. 13 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) In these emails that were 14 exchanged back and forth in which Mr. Walls took part, 15 did you have reason to believe that he had been bereft of 16 his own independent will in his work on the Journal of 17 Schenkerian Studies? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. I do not believe that he was bereft of his own 20 independent will. 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Thank you. And just to follow 22 up on your relationship with Mr. Walls, how close would 23 you describe your relationship with mentee and advisee of 24 Mr. Walls at this time? 25 A. Somewhat close. We correspond maybe once a 72 1 month, once every two months. 2 Q. I assume you have a residence somewhere in the 3 -- in the Denton area near the University of North Texas, 4 correct? 5 A. At the moment, no. 6 Q. While you were teaching at the University of 7 North Texas, do you live in the Dallas area? 8 A. While teaching and -- so not -- meaning not 9 this year, prior to this year -- 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. -- and after this year, yes, I have had a 12 residence in -- around Dallas. 13 Q. Have you had Mr. Walls over to your home? 14 A. Nope. 15 Q. Have you ever visited Mr. Walls at his home? 16 A. Nope. 17 Q. Do you primarily meet in your office at UNT? 18 A. Primarily, yes. 19 Q. Is Mr. Walls in residence at the -- in Dallas? 20 A. Currently, no. 21 MS. QUIMBY: Object to form. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Where is he now? 23 A. Mr. Walls is in residence in California while 24 writing his dissertation. 25 Q. And do you know when he left for California? 73 1 A. Yes. He left the Denton area for California 2 in -- this year in -- I believe in June. 3 Q. So it's very recent? 4 A. Quite recent. 5 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, going back to Exhibit 5. 6 Based on Mr. Walls' response here in this email of 7 July 25, was there an intent to exclude Ewell from 8 responding to the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 A. I do not know whether there was or was not 11 intent to exclude Professor Ewell. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) He says here, if you look at 13 the -- sorry. I'm going to try to highlight this. He 14 says, "We could publish something in the upcoming volume 15 if that is what people want, but he couldn't" -- meaning 16 Ewell -- "he couldn't have responded to responses that 17 hadn't yet come out." 18 Did I read that correctly? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And you understand "he" in that sentence to 21 refer to Philip Ewell, right? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Did you understand that to indicate an 24 intention to exclude Philip Ewell from responding in the 25 pages of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies to Volume 12? 74 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. I take this as an indication that Levi was not 3 privy to whether -- was not privy to -- sorry. Let me -- 4 let me rephrase that. 5 I take this as an indication that -- that 6 Levi's understanding is that Philip Ewell hadn't been 7 contacted. And I take this to mean that Levi's 8 understanding is that Professor Ewell, you know, wasn't 9 meant to be contacted by the other editorial staff of the 10 journal. 11 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you know if Mr. -- excuse 12 me. Do you know if Professor Ewell was contacted by 13 Ellen Bakulina? 14 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 15 A. I do not know. 16 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You and Professor Bakulina 17 never discussed that? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. No. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you have any knowledge of 21 anything that prevented Professor Bakulina from 22 contacting Philip Ewell and inviting him to participate 23 in Volume 12 I mean? 24 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 25 A. I know of no such, you know, preventative 75 1 barrier or measure, no. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So here, then, above Mr. Walls' 3 email is one by Timothy Jackson. He addresses you 4 directly, saying, "Andrew, perhaps if you feel it 5 necessary, you can inform people that they can write to 6 me using email. Unlike our current president, I do not 7 use Twitter. But if they want to send me an email, you 8 can give them any UNT email address. That will be the 9 official response for now." 10 Did I read that correctly? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And that's Timothy email -- Timothy Jackson's 13 email on Saturday, July 25 at 9:47 p.m.? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. Do you remember getting that email and 16 that instruction from Timothy Jackson? 17 A. I don't recall getting that specific email. 18 But seeing it in front of me, you know, I believe it took 19 place. 20 Q. Well, my volume question was going to be: Did 21 you take any action in response to that? 22 A. I did not. 23 Q. Okay. Then there's an email finally from 24 Professor Slottow and you are on the cc line right here? 25 A. Uh-huh. Yes. 76 1 Q. Did you -- did you recall receiving this email 2 of July 25, 2020, at, looks like, about 10:30 at night, 3 10:28? 4 A. I believe I remember receiving this one. I 5 certainly -- you know, I see it in front of me and I 6 believe that I -- that I definitely received it. 7 Q. And Professor Slottow characterized the 8 situation, in that second paragraph, "Here's how I see 9 it. Ewell gave a talk at" the -- "at SMT to which there 10 was no opportunity to respond." 11 Did I read that correctly? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. Do you recall anyone objecting that that wasn't 14 true at the time? 15 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 16 A. I recall no such objection. 17 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And then he goes on, "The JSS 18 initiative was for the purpose of giving Schenkerians an 19 opportunity to respond to Ewell's comments since they had 20 no opportunity at SMT." 21 Did I read that correctly? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Just to back up a bit, did you understand 24 Philip Ewell's talk in November of 2019 at the Society 25 for Music Theory to be a general critique of Schenkerians 77 1 in the field? 2 A. Not per se. I understood it to be raising the 3 question of the ways in which, you know, music 4 theoretical methods are -- may carry baggage from 5 unsavory views that their historical authors held, and 6 Schenker and Schenkerians were adduced as a case study. 7 Q. Do you recall him arguing that Schenkerian 8 scholars had, quote, whitewashed Heinrich Schenker? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 A. I do recall that pronouncement, yes. 11 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you consider yourself a 12 Schenkerian scholar? 13 A. Not in any way. 14 Q. Okay. So he also says, going on, "The feeling 15 was that he had already had his say" -- meaning Ewell had 16 had his say -- "now some Schenkerians could have theirs." 17 Did I read that correctly? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. At the time did you find anything objectionable 20 about how Stephen Slottow had characterized Volume 12? 21 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 22 A. I don't believe so. I -- I would not be 23 surprised if -- you know, if I -- if I believed at the 24 time that it would have been in good taste for the 25 editors of the journal to have asked Professor Ewell to 78 1 submit a response to the pieces that were collected for 2 the issue. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Are you aware that Philip Ewell 4 made a statement to the Denton Record Chronicle that he 5 refused to read Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 6 Studies? 7 A. I -- I do not remem- -- I don't remember this 8 information, no. 9 Q. Do you read the Denton Record Chronicle -- 10 Denton Record Chronicle? Excuse me. 11 A. I do not. 12 Q. Okay. Do you consider it professional of an 13 academic scholar to announce that he or she will not read 14 essays in which their critics are publishing viewpoints 15 contrary to their own? 16 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 17 A. Scholars are free to read as they please or 18 decline to read. 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Well, of course -- 20 A. I see that neither as professional or 21 unprofessional. 22 Q. Okay. That was going to be my question. 23 So your testimony today is that you don't see 24 it as professional or unprofessional to refuse to read 25 the publications of your critics? 79 1 A. Without -- without further contextualizing 2 information, I -- I can't, you know, answer that question 3 with clarity and divinity in the abstract and 4 hypothetical. 5 Q. Okay. Well, I'm not being abstract. I'm 6 telling you -- and I want you to assume it's true -- that 7 Philip Ewell told the Denton Record Chronicle that he 8 refused to read Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 9 Studies. And my question for you is: In that context, 10 is it professional for a scholar to refuse to read the 11 essays of their critics? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection. 13 A. If they believe if it's in their -- in their 14 best interest not to read, then -- then yes. I believe 15 it's acceptable professional conduct to decline even if 16 it's the writings of ones critics. 17 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And is it reasonable to expect 18 a journal to invite someone to participate in a symposium 19 when they declare they won't read it? 20 MS. QUIMBY: Objection. 21 A. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't say that it's like a 22 tacit unspoken rule that should be followed. I -- I 23 believe that the majority of people in the field would 24 say that it's in good taste and a good practice for 25 editors to -- to invite a response. 80 1 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you have any reason to 2 believe that the announcement that went out soliciting 3 papers to the Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 4 Studies was not received by Philip Ewell? 5 A. Without seeing the call for papers in front of 6 me, I'm -- I'm -- I'm unaware. 7 Q. Sure. Do you get the emails that are sent out 8 over the SMT server list? 9 A. To which list are you referring? What is the 10 -- the exact title? 11 Q. Yeah. 12 A. There are a handful of lists. That's why I 13 ask. 14 Q. No, no. And that's perfectly -- let's see. 15 Let me take down this exhibit, and we'll get to exactly 16 what I'm talking about here. Not that. Here we go. 17 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to mark for the 18 record as Exhibit 6. These are a large body of emails. 19 (Exhibit No. 6 marked.) 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And I'm just going to represent 21 to you, Professor Chung, that I -- I wouldn't expect that 22 you've seen all of them. I think you probably will have 23 seen some of them. And we're not going to dwell on all 24 of them. I just want to call your attention to one in 25 particular that we've raised here. Let me publish this 81 1 to the record. 2 A. Okay. I understood. I -- I got you. 3 Q. So Exhibit 6 is a lengthy document, 138 pages. 4 This is material -- I'm just going to represent to you 5 that this is material that Timothy Jackson provided to 6 John Ishiyama and others who were part of a so-called ad 7 hoc committee convened to investigate the Journal of 8 Schenkerian Studies in the fall of 2020. 9 I wouldn't expect you to have been privy to 10 these -- to the -- except to the extent that you received 11 emails that are in this body of documents provided to the 12 ad hoc panel. I am going to ask you to -- hold on. 13 Let me get the -- navigate to the page UNT 2663. 14 You see how in the bottom of these documents there are 15 page numbers that have been assigned to them? I'm just 16 going to let you know those are what's called Bates 17 numbers, and attorneys mark documents with what's called 18 Bates numbers to give documents that are produced in the 19 discovery of civil litigation a uniform series of page 20 numbers. 21 A. Understood. Yes, I'm on UNT_002663 right now. 22 Q. Thank you. Now I'll have to get that up on the 23 screen. There we go. So I'm just going to highlight so 24 that you can see it. Do you see it says smt-announce CFP 25 Journal of Schenkerian Studies here? 82 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And this seems to be two -- hold on. My 3 computer is trying to launch an email to the very server 4 list we've just described. Sorry. 5 Do you see 6 smt-announce@societymusictherapy.org? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. That is the server list I'm referring to. Do 9 you recognize this server list as a server list of the 10 Society for Music Theory? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. Do you receive that server list? 13 A. I receive -- I'm a subscriber to this list, 14 yes. 15 Q. So would you have received the call for papers 16 to Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 17 A. I would have received this, yes. 18 Q. And I think we had broken off at the point 19 where I asked whether you had any reason to believe that 20 Philip Ewell did not receive this invitation to 21 participate in Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 22 Studies? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. My expectation is that he is a subscriber to 25 this list and that he would have received this list. 83 1 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. What's the purpose of a 2 call for papers in academic publishing based on your 3 experience as an assistant professor who has published 4 extensively? 5 A. Sure. A call for papers is a means for editors 6 of a publication to solicit submissions from the wider 7 membership or constituency of a field if there are, you 8 know, any authors out there who have some writing or 9 thoughts to share about the topic that's proposed in the 10 call for papers. 11 Q. So is it inaccurate to characterize it as an 12 invitation to participate? 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 A. It's an invitation to submit essays for 15 consideration. 16 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. So I think we've 17 established this is the server list we were talking 18 about. I think we can put away that. 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. It might be that we come back to it, but if we 21 do, I'll -- I'll ask you to call it up again. Thank you, 22 Professor Chung. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. Do you recall Timothy Jackson ever expressing 25 any opposition to publishing a response by Philip Ewell 84 1 in the pages of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 A. I was not privy to any conversations about what 4 the journal would or would not publish, so I -- I have no 5 knowledge of Professor Jackson supporting or objecting. 6 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to mark for the 7 record another exhibit. This will be marked as 8 Exhibit 7. I will also place it in the chat. 9 (Exhibit No. 7 marked.) 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So I've marked as Exhibit 7 a 11 document that begins with an email from Timothy Jackson, 12 which is undated, and then continues through a thread of 13 six pages. It starts with the Bates number UNT 000304. 14 Did I characterize that correctly? 15 A. Yes. Correct. 16 Q. Thank you. So I believe we'll see that this is 17 the same -- some of this is the same thread but it 18 diverges. Do you see that professor -- excuse me. 19 Do you see, Professor Chung, here is this email 20 on Page 000307 from Mr. Walls that we had just been 21 talking about in Exhibit 5? 22 A. Yes, I see it. 23 Q. And then there are some additional responses, 24 including one from you, that diverge from the previous 25 exhibit. And I just want to state for the record that 85 1 Exhibit 7 is a distinct email thread but it shares emails 2 in common with the previous exhibit in the way that 3 emails often do, someone picks it up and forwards it to 4 another thread. Is that fair to say? 5 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. So if we can just pick 8 up where we left off with the other thread, this appears 9 to be a conversation that is occurring at the same time 10 after Levi Walls has emailed everyone that he has just 11 heard about this controversy that you brought to 12 everyone's attention. And if you skip to the bottom of 13 the exhibit, you'll see it also begins with that very 14 same email in which you have brought to everyone's 15 attention that there is a controversy bubbling up on 16 Twitter, right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Just trying to get us on the same page, 19 Professor Chung. Thank you. 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Now, we're -- so, then, this is your email on 22 July 25, 2020, at 9:12 p.m. Before we talk about that, 23 is it common for you to be discussing and exchanging this 24 volume of emails with your colleagues on a Saturday 25 evening? 86 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. This would -- this would be an unusual event to 3 exchange this much correspondence on a Saturday evening. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And you write to your 5 colleagues, including Ellen Bakulina, Timothy Jackson, 6 Stephen Slottow, Benjamin Graf, Diego Cubero, as well as 7 Mr. Walls, "Dear all, I agree with Levi that a 8 well-considered and timely response seems important. 9 From what I have been seeing, people on social media are 10 not happy that there is not a published response-to-the- 11 responses written by Ewell at the invitation of JSS, and 12 have concerns that the journal published an anonymous 13 article whatever the merits and complexities for doing 14 so." 15 Did I read that correctly, Professor Chung? 16 A. Correct. Uh-huh. 17 Q. What was the objection to the anonymous 18 publication in Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 19 Studies such as you understood it at this time? 20 A. Sure. My -- I believe my understanding -- 21 well, my understanding at the time was that it's -- it's 22 highly unusual for an anonymous submission to be 23 published in -- in any academic journal. The unusualness 24 by dent of its sheer abhorrency raises questions about 25 why such a measure was taken, whether it was appropriate. 87 1 That's my understanding. 2 Q. Did you have an understanding about why there 3 would have been an anonymous publication in Volume 12 of 4 the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 5 A. I had no such understanding. Only question 6 marks. 7 Q. So once the journal came out, there was an open 8 letter from the Society of Music Theory, right? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Do you recall signing that letter yourself? 11 A. I -- yeah, I recall signing it. 12 Q. Did that open letter include the vast majority 13 of members of the Society of Music Theory? 14 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 15 A. I do not know whether -- I am -- I am not aware 16 of what the total, you know, numbers of membership are. 17 I -- I do recall that a letter was signed by several 18 hundred people at least. 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And what was the nature of that 20 open letter? What was its -- what was its intent? What 21 was its substance? 22 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 23 A. Not having the letter in front of me, I don't 24 recall very well. I -- my impression, from what I can 25 recall, is that the -- the substance and the thrust of 88 1 the letter was for -- really for the SMT to ask its 2 members to think about, you know, the ways in which 3 racially insensitive ideas may still linger in the field. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Is it safe to say that it 5 condemned the Journal of Schenkerian Studies Volume 12? 6 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 7 A. What do you mean by condemn? 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Did it criticize Volume 12 of 9 the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 10 A. I believe that's an accurate summary of -- of 11 the SMT. 12 Q. And it criticized Volume 12 as, quote, racist, 13 correct? 14 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 15 A. That I cannot recall without seeing it in front 16 of me. 17 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you recall that there were 18 several hundred people who signed that open letter? 19 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 20 A. I recall that there were several hundred people 21 who signed it. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And so you still, as you sit 23 here today, can't think of a reason why someone would 24 want to publish their article in the Journal of 25 Schenkerian Studies anonymously? 89 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) That's really a mystery to you, 3 Professor Chung? 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. Can you restate the question, please? 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Sure. Despite several hundred 7 people publishing an open letter condemning or, as you 8 said, criticizing the Journal of Schenkerian Studies 9 Volume 12, it's your testimony today that you really 10 don't understand why someone published anonymously in 11 Volume 12 Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 12 A. The anonymous publication -- 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 A. -- was before that letter. That is -- so, yes, 15 that is my testimony. Because the chronology that you 16 seem to be assuming is not correct. 17 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Incidentally, are you aware 18 that Professor Ewell published a book addressing some of 19 the same themes that began with his plenary address in 20 2019 at the SMT annual conference? 21 A. I am -- I am aware of the existence of the 22 book, yes. 23 Q. And is the title of that book On Music Theory, 24 and Making Music Theory More Welcoming for Everyone? 25 A. I believe that's the correct title. 90 1 Q. Have you read it? 2 A. I have not read it. 3 Q. Do you know whether he engages in a response to 4 his critics in the Journal of Schenkerian Studies in the 5 pages of his book? 6 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 7 A. It is -- it is known that he -- he does make 8 some commentary on -- in regards to the Journal of 9 Schenkerian Studies. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you have any reason to 11 believe that Professor Ewell was, quote, silenced by the 12 Journal of Schenkerian Studies publishing the symposium 13 in Volume 12? 14 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 15 A. Do I have any reason to believe that Professor 16 Ewell was silenced? Insofar he wasn't invited to or 17 wasn't -- yeah, invited to respond to the pieces that 18 were being published, many of which, you know, mention 19 him by name -- I mean, whether that's, you know, being 20 silenced or excluded, per se, is perhaps a matter of 21 semantic definition. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Well, how about this 23 definition: Has he had any trouble getting his work 24 published to your knowledge since 2020? 25 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 91 1 A. I -- I have no idea what presses or journals 2 dealings with Professor Ewell have been since 2020. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Well, you know his book came 4 out, right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. That's a sign that he's had some success 7 publishing, correct? 8 A. More than zero, yes. 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Have you been able to publish a 11 book at this stage in your career? 12 A. No, I have not. 13 Q. I want to call your attention to Benjamin 14 Graf's response in this thread. It's on page UNT 000306 15 on July 25 at 9:47 p.m. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And it's addressed to you as well as others. 18 Do you see that? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. He also says, in this second line of his email, 21 "I think we should send Ewell a copy and invite him to 22 respond." Correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Does that indicate an unwillingness to publish 25 Ewell in the pages of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 92 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. Well, I think it -- it suggests, implies to a 3 reasonable person that Professor Ewell had not been 4 invited previously. 5 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) That was -- great. We're not 6 talking about that right now. I asked a pretty simple 7 question. 8 Does that indicate to you a resistance to 9 publishing Ewell in the pages of the Journal of 10 Schenkerian Studies, "I think we should send Ewell a copy 11 and invite him to respond"? 12 A. Again, it's -- it leaves open the possibility 13 that there was a resistance to publishing Ewell in Volume 14 12, but not subsequently. 15 Q. So that's your testimony today, that this 16 actually does indicate a resistance to publishing him? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Publishing him -- 19 A. My testimony is that I don't know whether there 20 was or was not resistance. 21 Q. That's not what I'm asking. 22 I'm asking: Does Benjamin -- first of all, who 23 is Benjamin Graf? 24 A. Benjamin Graf is a lecturer in the division of 25 music history, music theory, and ethnomusicology. 93 1 Q. Is it fair to say he's teaching faculty at UNT? 2 A. That is correct. 3 Q. But nevertheless a member of the faculty, 4 correct? 5 A. Yes. A member of the faculty just the same, 6 correct. 7 Q. What was his role in the Journal of Schenkerian 8 Studies at this time, if you know? 9 A. I do not know. 10 Q. Did you know he was the previous graduate 11 student editor of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 A. I did not know. 14 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You knew that he was part of 15 the editorial staff at this time? 16 A. I knew that he had some kind of named and 17 printed official involvement with the journal. 18 Q. Okay. And in his role as some sort of 19 involvement with the journal, he's saying to this 20 audience, comprising you, Levi Walls, Ellen Bakulina, 21 Timothy Jackson, Stephen Slottow: I think we should send 22 Ewell a copy and invite him to respond, right? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And you can't give a straight yes or no answer 25 to whether you think that indicates a willingness to 94 1 invite Philip Ewell to respond? 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 A. I think you're asking two questions in this 4 question. Certainly he wasn't invited to -- 5 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Why don't you answer them in 6 series? 7 A. -- respond. 8 Q. He wasn't invited individually to respond. We 9 can assume that based on the record. We do know that he 10 received the invitation through the SMT server list 11 because I'm just going to represent to you he's testified 12 to that. 13 My question is really a simple one: Does 14 saying to you, among others, "I think we should send 15 Ewell a copy and invite him to respond" indicate a 16 willingness to have Ewell respond in the pages of the 17 Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 18 (Cross-talk.) 19 A. It indicates a willingness to publish him in 20 the Journal of Schenkerian Studies subsequent to the 21 publication of Volume 12 certainly. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Let's just sew this up. 23 Does indicate an intention to exclude Professor Ewell 24 from publishing in the pages of the Journal of 25 Schenkerian Studies? 95 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. It certainly leaves open the possibility that 3 such an intention existed but does not confirm such an 4 intention. 5 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you know of any documents 6 that confirm an intention to exclude Philip Ewell from 7 publishing in the Journal of Schenkerian Studies at any 8 time, Professor Chung? 9 A. I know of no such document. 10 Q. But nevertheless you think such a document may 11 exist? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 A. I don't know what things do or don't exist 14 other than what I empirically -- 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. -- see in my -- 17 Q. Well, let's -- let's follow up on that. Do you 18 have any empirical evidence that there was an intention 19 not to publish Philip Ewell in the pages of the Journal 20 of Schenkerian Studies? 21 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 22 A. I think that there is certainly a suggestion 23 that such a move was not considered. 24 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) A suggestion to you is 25 empirical evidence? 96 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. A suggestion -- I don't -- I don't understand 3 the question. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Well, I don't understand your 5 answer. I asked you if you have any empirical evidence, 6 because you brought up empirical evidence. I'm asking 7 you if you have any empirical evidence that there was an 8 intention to exclude Philip Ewell -- 9 A. I am not in possession -- 10 Q. -- from publishing -- 11 A. -- of such empirical evidence, no. 12 Q. Thank you. 13 MS. QUIMBY: Can we take a break, please? 14 It's been over an hour. 15 MR. ALLEN: We're just going to finish this 16 real quick, and how about after that? I don't think we 17 have more than five minutes. Be done by 12:30. 18 MS. QUIMBY: Yes. 19 MR. ALLEN: Is that okay with you, 20 Professor Chung? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So I just wanted to skip up 23 to -- let me see. What are we on? UNT Page 305. Here 24 is a message from Benjamin Brand to all of you. Do you 25 see that? 97 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And who is Professor Benjamin Brand? 3 A. Benjamin Brand was the -- was the chair of the 4 division of music -- music history, music theory, and 5 ethnomusicology at the time. 6 Q. So is it fair to say he was your direct boss at 7 that time in colloquial terms? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. And he's calling for an emergency 10 meeting here at 4:00 p.m., right? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And that is Sunday, July 26, 2020, right? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Is that unusual at UNT, to have an emergency 15 meeting on a Sunday? 16 A. I think by virtue of the fact it's an emergency 17 it's inherently unusual. 18 Q. Was it usual to have any meetings on Sundays? 19 A. Very unusual to have any meetings on Sundays. 20 Q. Okay. Did you attend that, quote, emergency 21 meeting? 22 A. I did not attend this meeting. 23 Q. So you don't know what the substance of this 24 so-called emergency meeting was? 25 A. I do not. 98 1 Q. Okay. 2 MR. ALLEN: I think we're done, but I'm not 3 sure. With this. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You've already testified you 5 have no direct knowledge of the processes of editorial 6 staff in reviewing, editing, copyediting, etcetera, the 7 Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies, right? 8 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 9 A. That I have no knowledge of the editorial 10 practices of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 11 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Yeah. Let me strike that 12 question and just ask you straightforwardly. Sorry about 13 that, Professor Chung. I just really wanted to get you 14 to your break here. 15 But back in -- you know, back before July 2020, 16 did you have any direct knowledge of how Volume 12 was 17 edited, put together, compiled, the day in/day out work 18 of editing the volume? 19 A. My assumption was that it's not much different 20 from any other journal. That's -- that's the extent of 21 my knowledge. No -- no specific, confirmed knowledge 22 about the specific practices of the journal. 23 Q. But you didn't know who was reading what essay? 24 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 25 A. No. That is not something that a journal makes 99 1 the public privy to. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And you didn't know who was 3 suggesting which comments on any particular essay in 4 Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies, correct? 5 A. No. Generally that's kind of held in 6 confidence among the editorial staff and peer reviewers 7 and authors and so forth. 8 Q. Okay. And that's kind of my -- I guess the 9 last question would be: You didn't consider yourself 10 part of the editorial staff of the Journal of Schenkerian 11 Studies at that time? 12 A. No. Not at all. 13 Q. All right. 14 MR. ALLEN: I think that will do it for 15 Exhibit 7. And we can go off the record. 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:24 a.m. 17 We are off the record. 18 (Recess from 11:24 a.m. to 11:32 a.m.) 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:32 a.m. 20 We are on the record. 21 MR. ALLEN: Professor Chung, I'm going to 22 mark for the record Exhibit 8 a document that is going to 23 put in the chat here as well. It is captioned Open 24 Letter on Anti-Racist Actions within SMT. Let me publish 25 to the record here. 100 1 (Exhibit No. 8 marked.) 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So is -- we were talking before 3 we went on break about -- 4 MR. ALLEN: Sorry. Are we on the record? 5 THE REPORTER: Yes. 6 MR. ALLEN: Thank you. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) We were talking about an open 8 letter that you signed that was circulated by members of 9 the Society for Music Theory. Do you remember that 10 testimony? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Is this that particular, quote, open letter? 13 A. This is that letter, correct. 14 Q. And it says, "Anyone may sign this document via 15 Google Forms," right? 16 A. Yes. Correct. 17 Q. And the signatures start -- like it's Bates 18 marked UNT 1090, this particular copy. And signatures 19 start on page UNT 1092, and they proceed for another 23 20 pages ending only on UNT 01115. 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And I believe -- so hold on one sec. If we can 23 find 1096, UNT 1096 by Bates stamp, I believe we find 24 your name in -- as a signatory, correct? 25 A. Correct. 101 1 Q. Do you know of any of your music theory 2 colleagues who did not sign this open letter? 3 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 4 A. I believe that not all of them did. 5 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you know who were the 6 members of your community at the University of North 7 Texas that did not sign? 8 A. I cannot recall. 9 Q. And then if we look at its substance, they are 10 talking about Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 11 Studies, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And they say that the journal, quote, singled 14 out Professor Ewell while denying him a chance to 15 respond, right? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And you signed that statement, right? That he 18 was, quote, denied a chance to respond? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And they also accuse the language of many of 21 its essays of, quote, anti-Black racism, right? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. What does that mean to you, anti-Black racism? 24 A. Remarks made in poor taste, disparaging 25 judgments of Black Americans and Black American musical 102 1 cultures. I remember this appearing in the discourse 2 around the journal. 3 Q. And do you know what specifically you 4 understood, at the time you signed this, constituted 5 anti-Black racism in the pages of the Journal of 6 Schenkerian Studies? 7 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 8 A. I remember a remark from Professor Jackson -- 9 and I'm paraphrasing -- to the effect that Black people 10 need to be elevated in order to be able to, 11 quote/unquote, to compete. Disparaging remarks made 12 about rap music, as if rap music is the end all and be 13 all of Black American musical production. I remember 14 remarks like this. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you, yourself, have a basic 16 knowledge as a professor of music theory of rap, hip hop, 17 and jazz? 18 A. A very basic understanding. I'm certainly not 19 an expert. 20 Q. Is it controversial in your field that jazz is 21 an African American art form, meaning by that that it 22 originated in African American culture? 23 A. No. That is wildly recognized. 24 Q. Is it wildly recognized that rap music is also 25 an art form that originated in African American culture? 103 1 A. Yes, it is. 2 Q. And if I ask the same about hip hop, would that 3 answer be the same, Professor Chung? 4 A. Yes. Yes. 5 Q. Thank you. And so as you understood it at the 6 time, Timothy Jackson's statements about -- I believe you 7 said hip hop or rap was -- was anti-Black racism? 8 A. No. I said -- I said -- specifically I said 9 that some of the remarks in -- not limited to Professor 10 Jackson's contribution to the journal -- were racially 11 insensitive in my opinion, in poor taste in my opinion. 12 Q. Did you think the proper response was to 13 publish a refutation of Timothy Jackson's viewpoints? 14 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 15 A. It is -- it is a standard and expected and 16 appropriate procedure for scholars to weigh in on -- 17 weigh in on the writings of other members of the field. 18 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Was it appropriate to cancel 19 the Journal of Schenkerian Studies in response to this 20 so-called anti-Black racism? 21 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 22 A. What does "cancel" mean in this context? 23 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Are you aware that the Journal 24 of Schenkerian Studies has ceased publishing after 2020? 25 A. I'm aware of that. 104 1 Q. Was that an appropriate response to, quote, 2 anti-Black racism -- 3 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) -- if Timothy Jackson did 5 express that viewpoint? 6 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 7 A. Journals stop publishing for all sorts of 8 reasons. 9 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Why do you think the Journal of 10 Schenkerian Studies stopped publishing? 11 A. I'm not privy to that information. 12 Q. You have no information as to why? 13 A. I'm really not privy -- I can -- I have 14 conjectures but I have no real information. 15 Q. Did you read a report that was published by the 16 University of North Texas called the ad hoc panel 17 report in November -- 18 A. I know of the existence -- 19 Q. -- of 2020? 20 A. Sorry. I know of the existence of such a 21 report. I did not read it. 22 Q. Okay. Did you read the articles of Volume 12 23 of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies before you signed 24 this open letter on anti-racist actions? 25 A. Not in tremendous detail. I did read the 105 1 contents of -- of many of them quickly and hastily. 2 Q. Did you read Timothy Jackson's article? 3 A. I did read Professor Jackson's article. 4 Q. So this -- this open letter on anti-racist -- 5 by the way, what do you understand by anti-racist? What 6 does that mean among music theorists? 7 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 8 A. I believe that it really has -- has a quite 9 bare denotation of meaning, you know, opposing racially 10 tinged or racially offensive remarks should they arise, 11 racially -- opposing -- let's see -- racially unequal 12 behaviors and actions should they arise. 13 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And you -- do you have any 14 personal knowledge of publications in academic journals 15 that refuted the factual statements Timothy Jackson made 16 in his contribution to Volume 12 of the Journal of 17 Schenkerian Studies? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. Of specific refutations of the -- like critical 20 and historical claims, I am -- I am not aware of any. 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Now, here in this open 22 letter that you signed on anti-racist actions, it refers 23 to: "These actions provide further evidence of the 24 structural force of white supremacy in our discipline." 25 This was also something you signed on to. So 106 1 what does -- what does that mean? 2 A. This is -- this remark in the letter I believe 3 is a response to the ad hominem character of some remarks 4 published in Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 5 Studies. Ad hominem in reference to Professor Ewell. 6 Q. What are those ad hominem statements in the 7 Journal of Schenkerian Studies Volume 12? 8 A. I don't remember their specific contents at 9 this time. I -- I remember Professor Ewell being singled 10 out and -- and questioned as far as his remarks go. 11 Q. Is it systemically racist to criticize a Black 12 scholar? 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 A. It certainly can give the appearance. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So Professor Ewell should be 16 treated specially because he's Black and should not be 17 criticized? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. No, I don't agree with that. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And, incidentally, do you 21 believe in any way or do you have any -- strike that, 22 please. 23 Do you have any direct knowledge of anything 24 published in the Journal of Schenkerian Studies having, 25 quote, dehumanized Professor Ewell? 107 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. I can certainly understand why authors of the 3 letter would use that language in relation to the ad 4 hominem remarks in relation to the disparaging remarks 5 about Black musical cultures and so forth. That can 6 certainly be interpreted as dehumanizing contents. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) But you can't remember what 8 those ad hominem and dehumanizing content is at this 9 time? 10 A. That Black people's standard needs to be raised 11 to compete; that -- that rap -- suggestions that rap 12 music, hip hop, and so forth have a sort of lesser 13 aesthetic dignity than classical music. Remarks like 14 this did appear. And I'm paraphrasing. 15 Q. And it's mostly those two that you allege 16 Timothy Jackson said in Volume 12? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. Those are the two that stick out in my memory. 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Incidentally, I -- do you 20 consider yourself a person of color, Professor Chung? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. I assume your background is Chinese in origin? 23 But you can correct me if I'm wrong. 24 A. You are wrong. 25 Q. What is your national origin? 108 1 A. I am Korean. 2 Q. Have you experienced white supremacy at the 3 University of North Texas? 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. Strictly speaking, yes. 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Could you explain for the 7 record how you have experienced white supremacy at the 8 University of North Texas? 9 A. Well, I mean what -- this -- I think this 10 depends on what the definitions of white supremacy are. 11 Can you give me yours? 12 Q. Well, no. You've signed a statement that says, 13 "Actions provide further evidence of the structural force 14 of white supremacy in our discipline," meaning your 15 discipline. You signed it. 16 A. You are -- you are leading the proceeding, and 17 you have asked the question. I would like you to define 18 it. 19 Q. Well, what do you mean by white supremacy? You 20 signed an SMT open letter saying there's white supremacy 21 in your discipline. What do you mean by that? 22 A. "White supremacy" here refers to the ways in 23 which the norms and judgments of European cultures are 24 taken to be the sort of standards and norms. 25 Q. And is that what you've perceived at the 109 1 university of north texist -- excuse me -- at the 2 University of North Texas? 3 A. Oh, sure. Every -- any person of color can 4 attest to such things I would expect. 5 Q. How have you personally experienced white 6 supremacy as you define it at the University of North 7 Texas? 8 A. For instance, the, you know, emphasis on 9 European composers in the curricula of my department. 10 For instance, the majority white representation of 11 administrative staff, chairs, tenured faculty. 12 Q. So the bear number of people who are white in 13 your department is -- is evidence of white supremacy; is 14 that -- is that your testimony? 15 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 16 A. My testimony is that the -- the majority white 17 population of the University and its staff and institu- 18 -- and its structures mean that the majority -- the 19 majority of power holders are -- are white people. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And how have -- how has your 21 career suffered because of the majority representation of 22 white people at the University of North Texas? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. I don't believe that my career has suffered. 25 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Have you not been able to 110 1 publish what you want because of white supremacy at the 2 University of North Texas? 3 A. I don't publish at the University of North 4 Texas. 5 Q. That wasn't my question. 6 Have you not been able to publish in your field 7 what you want because of white supremacy at the 8 University of North Texas? 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 A. Me personally, no, I have not experienced that 11 on -- that. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Have you experienced pressure 13 in your discipline not to publish whatever you want 14 because of white supremacy in your discipline? 15 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 16 A. There are certainly explicit pressures to 17 publish on topics that, you know, appeal to -- to 18 scholars of the sort, you know, traditional core of -- of 19 European musical repertoires. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So teaching European musical 21 repertoires is itself an expression of white supremacy? 22 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 23 A. It expresses the predominance of white European 24 cultures. 25 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And in your view that is white 111 1 supremacy? 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 A. Perhaps not in the -- you know, in the manner 4 in which white supremacy is used on television or so 5 forth. But, yes, it -- strictly speaking it is an 6 expression of white supremacy. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And you also signed this 8 statement where it says here under like a sub area B, 9 "These white supremacist roots have resulted in racist 10 policies that have benefited whites and whiteness while 11 disadvantaging nonwhites and nonwhiteness." 12 Did I read that correctly? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. What racist policies can you identify at the 15 University of North Texas that have benefited whites and 16 whiteness while disadvantaging nonwhites and 17 nonwhiteness? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. Strict policy there I can think of none. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. And can you identify 21 injustices suffered by BIPOC at all stages of their 22 careers at the University of North Texas? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. Only anecdotically. 25 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Well, please tell us some 112 1 anecdotes relevant to the University of North Texas in 2 your experience. 3 A. Sure. Anecdotically I think scholars of color 4 are less accustomed to having their ideas be, you know, 5 immediately believed. Scholars of color are often 6 accustomed to deferring to -- to majority white 7 colleagues. This is a common anecdotical experience in 8 the academy. 9 Q. As a person of color -- I mean "BIPOC" stands 10 for black, indigenous, person of color, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And I'm reading from the SMT open letter that 13 says, "Racist policies have resulted in injustices 14 suffered by BIPOC at all stages of their careers." 15 Did I read that correctly? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And as a person of color yourself, have you 18 experienced at the University of North Texas difficulty 19 being believed because of the color of your skin? 20 A. I certainly have my suspicions that such is the 21 case. Again, not having omniscient access to other 22 people's internal states, I can't confirm or deny. 23 Q. Well, describe an incident. I mean, you're the 24 one signing statements that says this racism is so 25 pervasive that you needed to sign a very lengthy 113 1 statement about it. So please describe instances in 2 which you -- I guess you said you surmised that you were 3 being disbelieved because of your race. 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. I mean, for instance, ideas about making 6 curricular changes to include more nonwestern musics are 7 sometimes met with skepticism. 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) When did you make such -- 9 (Cross-talk.) 10 A. -- remarks of the sort that the -- that the 11 letter is -- is talking about. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) When did you make such 13 suggestions that were rejected? 14 A. I don't recall making such suggestions myself. 15 But this is -- this is the kind of thing that the letter 16 is talking about. 17 Q. And you also said that, I believe, BIPOC 18 scholars defer to their white colleagues. That's another 19 example of racial supremacy? 20 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 21 A. Strictly speaking, yes. 22 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) When have you individually, 23 Professor Chung, deferred to your white colleagues 24 because of their white supremacy? 25 A. Because of their white supremacy? What do you 114 1 mean? 2 Q. Well, I don't know. That's when you're 3 describing. You said that it is a marker of white 4 supremacy in your discipline that people of color defer 5 to their white colleagues and that indicates systemic 6 race, or something like that. Did I -- did I 7 mischaracterize that? 8 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 9 A. Yeah. It's not the best characterization. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So I'm asking for a specific 11 example of when you deferred to a white colleague and you 12 believe that was because of white supremacy. 13 A. What that means is that, you know, you were 14 expected -- scholars of color are, you know, not -- are 15 expected to really not talk about race. 16 Q. It seems like all this open letter talks about 17 is race. Did that apply to this open letter too? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. No. That's why -- that's why it's an open 20 letter. 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You didn't -- you certainly 22 didn't feel impeded from talking about racism in July 23 of 2020, did you? 24 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 25 A. In July 2020? It's always risky for scholars 115 1 of color to talk about race. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you feel compromised in your 3 tenure application by your participation in the open 4 discussion about race in July of 2020? 5 A. Beyond conjecture, no. 6 Q. You certainly don't believe you suffer from any 7 kind of fragile nature that prevents you from speaking 8 your mind about race at the University of North Texas, do 9 you? 10 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 11 A. Can you repeat the question? Fragile nature? 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Yeah. Do you -- is there some 13 sort of fragility that you suffer from that would prevent 14 you from speaking your mind on matters of race at the 15 University of North Texas? 16 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 17 A. Well, it's often not a prudent topic. I think 18 fragility is a -- I don't know why that's entering the 19 question. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) It's, quote, not a prudent 21 topic, that's your -- that's your view? 22 A. Sometimes. 23 Q. And yet you know that Philip Ewell's 24 November 2019 paper at the university -- excuse me -- at 25 the Society for Music Theory was well received, correct? 116 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) It didn't seem that that 4 required any prudence for him to avoid that topic, right? 5 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 6 A. Oh, it certainly required prudence to -- to 7 handle that topic correctly or handle that topic at all. 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Did you think it was 9 particularly courageous of him, for instance, to avoid 10 reading his critics in the Journal of Schenkerian 11 Studies? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 A. I don't think courage or not courage is the -- 14 is the correct axis on -- on which that hinges. I think 15 that's if -- you know, if the scholar chooses not to read 16 their critics for their own reasons, whatever they may 17 be, that's -- that's their prerogative. 18 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Yet in this letter, you singled 19 Professor Ewell out as someone with -- among others who 20 spoke at that 2019 plenary session, as someone with 21 exceptional courage, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. I want to transition now to speaking of the -- 24 the faculty letter which you also signed in addition. 25 Before we move on, do you recall when you signed this SMT 117 1 open letter on anti-racist actions? 2 A. I do not recall when that was. 3 Q. Was it before or after the July 25 emails that 4 we had examined earlier? 5 A. It -- it has to have been after. 6 Q. Okay. Is it safe to say it was before the end 7 of July, if you know? 8 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 9 A. It's not safe to say that. It was before -- I 10 don't know. It was before the beginning of 2024. I do 11 not recall the time when this letter was circulated. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) It certainly would have been in 13 2020, right? 14 A. It would have been in 2020 after July. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. That's my assumption. 17 Q. And that's fine. I understand the limits of 18 memory. 19 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to mark for the 20 record as Exhibit 9 a document captioned ad hoc panel -- 21 Ad Hoc Review Panel Report of Review of Conception and 22 Production of Volume 12 of the Journal of Schenkerian 23 Studies, and it is dated November 25, 2020. 24 (Exhibit No. 9 marked.) 25 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) I'm going to represent to you, 118 1 Professor Chung, that this is a report that was issued by 2 a so-called ad hoc panel convened to investigate the 3 Journal of Schenkerian Studies, supposedly objectively, 4 and charged with that by Jennifer Cowley, your former 5 provost. 6 You had already testified that you did not read 7 this document, so I'm not going to ask you to comment on 8 it. But it does have, as exhibits, at the very end 9 various attachments, and it's those that I would like to 10 talk about. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. This is one captioned Statement of UNT Faculty 13 on Journal of Schenkerian Studies, and it's signed by 14 you. Do you see that? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Do you recognize this attachment -- I'm not 17 asking you about the -- the total report, just this 18 attachment. Do you recognize this attachment? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what is this Statement of UNT Faculty on 21 Journal of Schenkerian Studies in Exhibit 9? 22 A. I take it as an expression of disapprobation 23 towards some of the contents of JSS Volume 12. 24 Q. And -- let me see if we can... 25 Here you also say you stand in solidarity with 119 1 your graduate students in their letter condemning the 2 Journal of Schenkerian Studies, right? 3 A. That is what that says, correct. 4 Q. What does that refer to? 5 A. What does what refer to? 6 Q. The letter of condemnation that the graduate 7 students apparently wrote concerning the Journal of 8 Schenkerian Studies. 9 A. Well, that is referring to, I believe, the 10 document in the second link. 11 Q. The link right here that I am -- 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Oops. I just launched it. 14 I'm highlighting it here. It follows in the 15 second paragraph after the statement, "We endorse the 16 call for action outlined in our student letter"? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. That URL? 19 A. Yeah. Correct. 20 Q. And I am just going to represent to you that 21 that URL would lead to this attachment to Exhibit 9. 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Is this the letter you remember endorsing? 24 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 25 A. This is the letter to which we -- we refer in 120 1 the faculty letter. 2 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Again, it says here 3 the -- referring to Volume 12 of the Journal of 4 Schenkerian Studies, "It's replete with racial 5 stereotypes and tropes," right? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And those were the same disparaging comments 8 you believe were also what you were thinking about when 9 you signed the SMT letter -- the SMT open letter? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Were there any others that you were thinking of 12 when you signed this -- you were referring to when you 13 signed this letter? 14 A. Not that I recall. 15 Q. Okay. And then you say in this letter you've 16 signed of UNT faculty, "The fact that he was not afforded 17 the opportunity to respond in print in unacceptable, as 18 is the lack of a clearly defined peer-review process." 19 Did I read that correctly? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Who does "he" refer to in that sentence? 22 A. Professor Ewell. 23 Q. And so you're making an assertion of fact that 24 he was not afforded the opportunity to respond in print, 25 right? 121 1 A. What do you mean by an assertion of fact? 2 Q. Well, this is the language that you signed on 3 to. "The fact that he was not afforded the opportunity 4 to respond in print is unacceptable," correct? 5 A. Yes. That -- that was our surmise to the best 6 of our knowledge, that he was not contacted to respond to 7 the -- the pieces that were published in Volume 12. 8 Q. Were you aware that Benjamin Graf contacted 9 Philip Ewell to invite him to respond? 10 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 11 A. I was not. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Benjamin Graf signed this 13 letter as well, right? 14 A. Yes. I see his name there. 15 Q. You don't recall anyone pointing out that 16 Philip Ewell also received the SMT invitation to 17 contribute to Volume 12? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. I don't believe that that counts as an 20 invitation to respond to the -- the -- the pieces that 21 were solicited for the journal. That's a somewhat 22 different matter of being invited to contribute to the -- 23 the pieces that were initially collected. 24 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So only a personal invitation 25 would have, quote, afforded the opportunity to respond in 122 1 print according to your testimony? 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 A. Well, that is -- that is the implicit and 4 specific meaning of that remark in the -- in the letter. 5 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) That's the implicit meaning is 6 what you're saying? 7 A. That is what I'm saying. 8 Q. It doesn't say that though, does it? 9 A. Debatable. 10 Q. It actually says, "He was not afforded the 11 opportunity to respond in print," right? 12 A. That is -- that is the denotation of that 13 sentence, yeah. 14 Q. Was there anything that prevented you from 15 qualifying that in -- along the lines of: He wasn't 16 provided a personal engraved invitation or something of 17 that nature? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. An engraved invitation? What does that mean? 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) There's no qualifying language 21 to this factual statement indicating that there is some 22 sort of hidden, implicit meaning, is there? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. There's no qualifying remark, no. 25 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) All right. Then you also 123 1 say -- you endorse the call for action outlined in the 2 students letter, right? 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. Right here? 5 A. Uh-huh. 6 Q. So let's talk about the students letter. 7 A. Okay. 8 Q. Which was incorporated by reference through 9 that URL link, right, into the -- 10 A. Right. 11 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) -- the faculty letter? 13 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Thank you. So let's see. Here 16 you endorse this, that it was platforming racist 17 sentiments, the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. What's the question, please? Sorry. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You endorse this part of the 21 letter that the Journal of Schenkerian Studies was 22 platforming, quote, racist sentiments? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. I certainly endorse that the students were 25 appalled, that they perceived such to be the case. I 124 1 think that to many people's reasonable judgments 2 racially -- racially incentives -- racially incentive -- 3 racially insensitive sentiments appeared in the journal. 4 That was also my understanding. That was also my 5 opinion, yes. 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You also endorsed this 7 statement, "The students have absolutely no say in the 8 content of the JSS." 9 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 10 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Right here. That's a factual 11 statement, right, Professor Chung? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 A. What's a factual statement, the statement that 14 students have -- 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) "Students have absolutely no 16 say in the content of the JSS," right? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. I believe that students -- yeah. I believe 19 that students generally believe they don't have ultimate 20 final say over what goes into the journal. 21 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) You've never discussed that 22 with Mr. Walls, right? 23 A. I -- I know so little about Schenkerian studies 24 and the Journal of Schenkerian Studies that this hasn't 25 come up in our discussions. 125 1 Q. Okay. Good. Did you consider this part that 2 you endorsed, "Publicly condemn the issue and release it 3 free online to the public"? 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. I endorse the ability of the students to -- to, 6 you know, make these kinds of calls. 7 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Sure. 8 A. Express their voices like this. 9 Q. Uh-huh. But that's not what your letter says, 10 is it? It says, "We endorse the call for action outlined 11 in our students letter," right? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 A. I took that -- I took that as, you know, 14 endorsing their general sentiments through the letter. I 15 certainly endorse their rights to express themselves and 16 to -- to declare their opinions and to ask for certain 17 kinds of actions. 18 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Incidentally, they also called 19 for providing a full public account of the editorial and 20 publication process and its failures, right? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And you endorsed that call for action? 23 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 24 A. Sure. I think when a journal is asked to -- to 25 clarify its procedures in the name of transparency, I 126 1 don't see why that's an objectionable thing to ask for. 2 I certainly -- I endorse that. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Would a full public account of 4 the editorial and publication processes be objective, 5 using the words of Jennifer Cowley here, if it excluded 6 indications that Levi Walls was lying about his 7 relationship with Professor Jackson? 8 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 9 A. I'm not sure -- I'm not sure under -- can 10 you -- I'm sorry, I think I lost my train of thought -- 11 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Sure. 12 A. -- in the middle of your question. 13 Q. That's fine. 14 MR. ALLEN: Please restate the question to 15 the witness, Madam Court Reporter. 16 (Requested portion was read.) 17 A. I mean, I'm -- I'm -- I was not privy to the -- 18 privy to the -- the conversations of -- having to do with 19 the editorial board. I am not privy to understanding or 20 whether Levi was speaking truthfully or mendaciously some 21 point or another. I don't have any insight into that 22 question. 23 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And did know that this 24 Exhibit 9, the ad hoc panel report, was published online 25 and remains online by the University of North Texas, 127 1 right? 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 A. I was not aware of that. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Did you know that Timothy 5 Jackson wrote a response to this report? 6 A. No. I knew of no such writing. 7 Q. Are you aware of any calls at the University of 8 North Texas to provide a, quote, full public account of 9 the editorial and publication process so that it includes 10 Timothy Jackson's response? 11 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 12 A. I am not aware. 13 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Now, another thing they 14 called for, the graduate students, is to dissolve the 15 JSS, right? 16 A. Uh-huh. 17 Q. And we've already established that the JSS has 18 not published since the time of the publication of these 19 statements, correct? 20 A. Sure. 21 Q. So that succeeded, correct? 22 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 23 A. That's debatable. I mean, journals can stop 24 publishing for all sorts of reasons other than 25 dissolution. 128 1 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) But you do know that it hasn't 2 published again, right? 3 A. That doesn't imply being dissolved. I do know 4 it has stopped publication, yes. 5 Q. Are you aware of any editorial board 6 constituted at the present time that is in the process of 7 publishing the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 8 A. No such board exists to my knowledge. I could 9 be wrong. 10 Q. But you think it's still a matter of mystery as 11 to whether the JSS has dissolved? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 A. I never said such a thing. I said the 14 process -- 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Let's skip down -- I'm sorry. 16 Go ahead. 17 A. I said the JSS very clearly has stopped 18 publishing. Whether it was dissolved, per se, I'm not 19 privy to such information. 20 Q. Number 3 here -- I don't know why I can't get 21 it -- grab it. But do you see this in highlight? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. It says, "Hold accountable every person 24 responsible for the direction of the publication. This 25 will involve recognizing both whistleblowers and those 129 1 who failed to heed them in this process." 2 Do you know who is being referred to there as 3 a, quote, whistleblower? 4 A. Specifically, no. 5 Q. You didn't bother to find that out before you, 6 quote, endorsed the call for action in this letter? 7 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 8 A. I endorse students abilities to make these kind 9 of calls. I endorse students, you know, abilities to ask 10 for more transparency. 11 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Did you make any effort to find 12 out who the so-called whistleblowers were? 13 A. I did not. 14 Q. It also goes on to say, "This should also 15 extend to investigating past bigoted behaviors by faculty 16 and, by taking this into account, the discipline and 17 potential removal of faculty who use the JSS platform to 18 promote racism. Specifically, the actions of 19 Dr. Jackson -- both past and present -- are particularly 20 racist and unacceptable." 21 Did I read that right? 22 A. That is what the document says, correct. 23 Q. Did you investigate the truth or falsehood of 24 any of those statements before signing the faculty 25 statement? 130 1 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 2 A. Here I defer to people with more institutional 3 knowledge than -- than I have. 4 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) I'm asking you about what you 5 did before you signed the statement. Did you look into 6 whether Timothy Jackson had engaged in specific racist 7 actions before endorsing the student statement with your 8 signature? 9 A. If such things -- if such things have been 10 alleged, then they should be investigated. 11 Q. No, that's not my question. 12 My question is: Did you do anything to confirm 13 that Timothy Jackson had committed some sort of racist 14 action before you endorsed the faculty statement with 15 your signature which incorporated by reference this call 16 to action? 17 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 18 A. I did not. 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Okay. Do you recall there 20 being any discussion amongst you as faculty [audio cut 21 out] about -- you know, limitations about what you 22 wished? 23 (Reporter clarification.) 24 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you recall in this July 2020 25 time frame while you were formulating -- you -- the 131 1 faculty, meaning you the faculty, were formulating this 2 statement of UNT faculty on the Journal of Schenkerian 3 Studies you discussed with your colleagues your 4 limitations on what you were choosing to endorse and what 5 not to endorse in the student statement? 6 MS. QUIMBY: Objection. 7 A. But limitations are always implicit. As a 8 professor, you never endorse everything that students say 9 because by -- by virtue of the fact that they are 10 students. This is a general endorsement, not a 11 line-by-line-type of endorsement. 12 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) So my question was different. 13 My question is: Do you recall any discussions 14 with your fellow faculty members about what you were 15 endorsing and what you weren't endorsing? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. Do you know of any documents that would 18 help refresh your memory of any such conversations? 19 A. At the moment I do not recall. 20 Q. I just have one more line of questioning about 21 what I'll just loosely call the diversity, equity, and 22 inclusion policies at the University of North Texas 23 back in -- back in this time frame. 24 But before we start that, can you just explain 25 for the record what you understand by diversity at the 132 1 University of North Texas? 2 A. Openness to a wide variety of viewpoints. 3 Openness to, you know, recognizing the dignity of 4 multiple aesthetic cultures. Openness to, for instance, 5 being equally welcoming to students of all ethnic 6 backgrounds and faculty as well. 7 Q. And could we throw in gender as well, equally 8 welcoming to all? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. And, just similarly, can you describe 11 for the record what you understand by inclusion as used 12 at the University of North Texas? 13 A. In University language, my understanding is 14 that these -- these diversity and inclusion, 15 particularly, have much of the same denotation. 16 Inclusion refers to, you know, allowing equal access for 17 voices from different sorts of perspectives to -- to take 18 part in classroom and, you know, administrative and 19 pedagogical conversations. 20 Q. So I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, 21 but does that mean sort of everything you described as 22 diversity plus making sure those groups or individuals 23 that were encompassed within the diverse umbrella were 24 also included in the educational programs of the 25 University? 133 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And do you recall a faculty retreat in January 3 of 2022 which was focused on diversity and inclusion? 4 A. I can't recall if I attended that -- that 5 retreat. 6 Q. That was going to be my next question. So let 7 me see if I can pull this up, and maybe we can settle 8 that question once and for all. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. I'm going to mark for the record -- let's see. 11 I'm going to have to pull it down first. 12 MR. ALLEN: Madam Court Reporter, are we up 13 to 10, Exhibit 10? 14 THE REPORTER: Yes, sir. 15 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to mark for the 16 record as Exhibit 10, and I will publish to the chat as 17 well to the record. 18 (Exhibit No. 10 marked.) 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) This is a -- a string of emails 20 plus an attachment dated November 23, 2021. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Where did it go? Why am I not -- sorry. I 23 recognize I am -- there we go. 24 MR. ALLEN: I misspoke. This is -- this is 25 Exhibit 10. It is an email dated January 5, 2022. So I 134 1 would like to strike that previous designation of 2 Exhibit 10. 3 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) It's a -- Exhibit 10 is, in 4 fact, an email dated January 5, 2022, with UNT Bates 5 No. 5521 and it announces a College of Music retreat for 6 Tuesday, January 11. Did I characterize that correctly, 7 Professor Chung? 8 A. Yes. I believe so. 9 Q. And do you recall participating in this 10 retreat? 11 A. I can't recall whether I participated or not. 12 I -- I -- I have not participated in all of these faculty 13 retreats as they come. 14 Q. Okay. Do you remember or do you -- let me put 15 it differently and strike that question. 16 Can you tell me if you know who Afa S. Dworkin 17 is? 18 A. I -- I do not know who Afa Dworkin is, no. 19 Q. Apparently she is the president and artistic 20 director of Sphinx. Do you see that? 21 A. Yes. Uh-huh. 22 Q. Are you familiar with an organization called 23 Sphinx? 24 A. I've heard of the organization before. I 25 don't -- I'm not privy to what -- what they -- what they 135 1 do as an organization. 2 Q. That's fine. And it might be that this will be 3 the end of our conversation about this because if you 4 don't know, you don't know. 5 But let me just really quickly -- I'll mark as 6 final exhibit here. Well, it may be the final exhibit. 7 Exhibit 11. 8 A. Okay. 9 (Exhibit No. 11 marked.) 10 MR. ALLEN: That's there published to the 11 list. So, then, I apologize. This is what I had got 12 confused about before. I looked at this one first. 13 There, I published it to the chat. 14 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Now, we've got -- Exhibit 11 is 15 the email of November 23, 2021. It has an attach -- 16 well, the Bates number is UNT 5523, and it had this 17 attachment, again, announcing a faculty and staff retreat 18 for January 11, 2022. Did I characterize that correctly? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Now, I'm just going to ask if this helps 21 refresh your memory about whether you did participate in 22 this faculty retreat, Professor Chung? 23 A. I cannot recall from -- 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. I can't recall whether I participated in this. 136 1 Q. Okay. I just want to ask one quick question 2 about Professor Bakulina. Do you know when Professor 3 Bakulina left the University of North Texas faculty? 4 A. I believe this was at the end of the academic 5 year in 2000- -- May 2022. 6 Q. So to the best of your knowledge, she would 7 have been around -- I'm not saying she participated or 8 that you know, but she would have been around in January 9 of 2022 at the time of this retreat? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 MR. ALLEN: Let's go off the record, 13 please. 14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:24 p.m. 15 We are off the record. 16 (Recess from 12:24 p.m. to 12:32 p.m.) 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:32 p.m. 18 We are on the record. 19 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Professor Chung, thank you for 20 your time today. I just have a few more questions. 21 Depending on your answers, I think we can probably wrap 22 it up pretty quickly. 23 Do you recall your eventual advisee, the 24 graduate student Levi Walls, publishing a -- sort of an 25 apology on Facebook on July 27, a relatively lengthy 137 1 apology about his role on the Journal of Schenkerian 2 Studies? 3 A. I do remember that this was circulated. I saw 4 it secondhand. 5 Q. Did you read it? 6 A. Yes. 7 (Exhibit No. 12 marked.) 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) One second. We'll publish this 9 as Exhibit 12. Which I believe you'll find is that 10 Facebook post by your now graduate student. 11 A. Okay. 12 MR. ALLEN: I will also put it online for 13 the record. 14 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Do you recognize this Facebook 15 post by Levi Walls, July 27, 2020? 16 A. I do recognize this post, yes. 17 Q. Is this the one you were referring to that you 18 read or was circulated to you secondhand? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Did you ever confirm with Mr. Walls that he was 21 the person who published this post? 22 A. I did not confirm with him. I have not 23 discussed this -- the contents of this writing with Levi. 24 Q. And he did say here that "I had no control of 25 the journal or over the decisions regarding review 138 1 processes," right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And to your knowledge was that true? 4 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 5 A. I don't know enough about the -- the sort of 6 the editorial structure of the journal to be able to 7 answer that question with -- with any clarity. 8 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And you never talked about that 9 topic with Mr. Walls? 10 A. No. 11 Q. He also says here at the end that he feared 12 that he could not leave without significant damage to my 13 career. Did I read that right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And you understood, when you read this, that he 16 meant he could not leave the Journal of Schenkerian 17 Studies without significant damage to his career? 18 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 19 A. I don't -- I don't know what Levi did or didn't 20 think about his -- his career at the time. I think it's 21 reasonable to infer what you've indicated from what's 22 written. 23 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) He talks in the beginning of 24 that paragraph that in the summer of 2019 he was asked if 25 he would take on a research assistantship, right? 139 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. And that assistantship was the assistant editor 3 of the Journal of Schenkerian Studies, right? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And my -- my question is a simple one. We can 6 agree that that's what he's referring to in the final 7 says when he says, "As I will explain, what appeared to 8 be a positive opportunity for a young graduate student, 9 quickly turned into an extremely shameful position that I 10 feared I could not leave without significant damage to my 11 career." 12 Did I read that right? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And he's referring to his position -- the 15 context of the paragraph clearly indicates that he's 16 talking about his position on the journal, right? 17 A. Yes. I think that's a solid inference, yeah. 18 Q. And so my -- then my question was going, to be 19 to you as his advisor now, his dissertation advisor, you 20 do know that he left the Journal of Schenkerian Studies, 21 he actually did do that, which he said he feared he could 22 not do here, right? 23 A. You know, I -- I haven't talked to him about 24 his dealings with the Journal of Schenkerian Studies. He 25 seemed to want to avoid the topic. 140 1 Q. Does he have funding now, Mr. Walls? 2 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 3 A. My understanding is that he doesn't any longer 4 have funding that's coming in from the University. He's 5 not teaching for the University at the moment. 6 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) When he first came to you, 7 which I think you said was already before the end of 8 2020, did he have funding? 9 A. He had funding then, yes. 10 Q. He didn't lose his funding after July 2020 11 then, did he? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 A. That's correct. That's not the only form in 14 which career damage can take however. 15 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) And he -- can you identify any 16 career opportunity that he has lost because he left the 17 Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 18 A. Well, it's very hard to identify opportunities 19 that were loss that, you know, never materialized in the 20 first place. If such a thing happened, I'm not directly 21 aware of any such thing. 22 Q. And that's what I was going to ask. In your 23 direct experience, though, you don't know of any 24 opportunity that Mr. Walls has forgone because he no 25 longer works on the journal? 141 1 A. I know of no such thing, but I can't preclude 2 its possibility. 3 Q. Do you write letters of recommendation for 4 Mr. Walls? 5 A. I expect to in the future. 6 Q. Have you helped him apply to any fellowships or 7 grants? 8 A. As -- as of yet, no. 9 Q. Do you intend to write letters of 10 recommendation with any negative comments about his role 11 on the Journal of Schenkerian Studies? 12 A. Certainly not. 13 Q. So you don't intend to penalize him for his 14 role on the Journal of Schenkerian Studies as his 15 dissertation advisor, do you? 16 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 17 A. I certainly do not. That would be a 18 contradiction or dereliction of my -- my responsibilities 19 to him as his advisor. 20 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Just one more -- we were sort 21 of talking about this. This is why I wanted to bring it 22 up actually. But if you look down, I think it's here -- 23 again, I'm just highlighting one sentence that -- sorry. 24 We'll try to get it in a form where it highlights it and 25 you can read it. 142 1 He says at the end of, it looks like, this 2 second paragraph on Bates page Jackson 235, "Furthermore, 3 after my warning that Dr. Jackson was woefully ignorant 4 about politically correct discourse and race relations, 5 he rebutted that Dr. Jackson did very well in the recent 6 diversity and inclusion workshops." He's referring there 7 to your former division head Benjamin Brand. 8 But my question for you is: Do you know what 9 Levi Walls is referring to when he refers to, quote, 10 politically correct discourse and race relations at the 11 University of North Texas? 12 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 13 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) If you have an understanding of 14 that. That's all I'm asking. 15 A. I -- I -- I mean, beyond understanding the 16 denotation of this sentence, no, I have no understanding 17 of -- of this. 18 Q. Do you know of any policy at the University of 19 North Texas that promotes, quote, politically correct 20 discourse? 21 MS. QUIMBY: Objection; form. 22 A. Policy? I mean, I think that it's, you know, 23 an expectation that professors, you know, will welcome 24 and include diverse voices in their classrooms. 25 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) Is Timothy Jackson's voice one 143 1 of those diverse voices? 2 A. Everyone's voice is. 3 Q. So your answer is yes? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Just one more. This really will be the last 6 one. Then we'll have you out I believe. One sec. This 7 will be very quick I promise, too. We're at Exhibit 13. 8 Sorry, Professor Chung, we're going to end on an unlucky 9 number. 10 A. I believe in so much thing. 11 Q. Good. 12 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to publish for the 13 record Exhibit 13, which is an email from Ellen Bakulina 14 dated July 29, 2020. Again, I'm going to put this in the 15 group chat here. That will take me just one second. 16 (Exhibit No. 13 marked.) 17 Q. (BY MR. ALLEN) I recognize that you're not on 18 this email. The reason I ask you about it is Ellen 19 Bakulina writes this email to various individuals who are 20 your colleagues and also your department chair Benjamin 21 Brand or division head, I guess, they're called. 22 And she says, "I have reviewed those emails one 23 more time and" -- well, let's just read to the whole 24 thing into the record. 25 A. Uh-huh. 144 1 Q. "When we had our, quote, emergency meeting on 2 Sunday" -- and you recall us identify that emergency 3 meeting called by Benjamin Brand, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And this is in that time frame. "I" -- meaning 6 Ellen Bakulina -- "said that my contribution to the, 7 quote, call for responses to Ewell, closed quote 8 formulation, was to suggest that the call should be 9 inclusive, that we must welcome different kinds of 10 perspectives. 11 "I have just reviewed those emails one more 12 time, and this is actually untrue. The idea of 13 inclusivity was already there in Levi's original draft 14 and it was further mentioned by Andrew Chung. So it 15 wasn't my suggestion at all." 16 Did I read that correctly? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. So since this refers to you, my question for 19 you is: Do you remember this conversation where 20 inclusivity was being discussed in relationship to the 21 call for proposals for Volume 12 of the Journal of 22 Schenkerian Studies? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And what was the nature of that discussion? 25 A. The nature of that discussion was that, I 145 1 believe, Levi Walls circulated a draft for the call for 2 papers that solicited material for Volume 12 of the 3 Journal of Schenkerian Studies. He circulated a draft of 4 the calls for papers to a number of -- a handful of 5 faculty members, including myself. And this would have 6 been in the early months of 2020 before -- you know, 7 before we were shuttered in due to the pathogen. 8 And at that time, you know, I -- I said, you 9 know, I think because the Journal of Schenkerian Studies 10 is about a topic that was, you know, heavily mentioned 11 during Professor Ewell's address, it's an appropriate -- 12 it's a good venue for a continuing discourse to take 13 place in -- in -- you know, in that correspondence to 14 which I'm referring. 15 Now I remember saying that, you know, I think 16 it's important to have a variety, a balance of different 17 kinds of reactions to Professor Ewell. Not all responses 18 that simply give him a blanket endorsement, not all 19 responses that give a proper blanket condemnation of 20 Professor Ewell. 21 Q. And that would -- is it fair to say that would 22 be your understanding of a healthy, scholarly discourse 23 then? 24 A. In general, yes. 25 Q. And what role did Mr. Walls play in that 146 1 discussion? 2 A. My only understanding of Levi Walls' role in 3 that discussion was that I believe he wrote the email to 4 myself and two or three other faculty members asking 5 whether, you know, it would be a good idea to, you know, 6 do the call for papers and if we had any suggestions. 7 Q. Uh-huh. And -- and that eventual -- you 8 reviewed the Journal of Schenkerian Studies Volume 12 9 enough to know that there were viewpoints that were 10 diverse, correct? Some were pro-Ewell, some were 11 anti-Ewell? 12 A. Some were -- some were, indeed, pro-Ewell and 13 some were anti-Ewell. I think the -- you know, the 14 sentiment was that the majority of pieces were anti or, 15 you know, expressed disapprobation towards Professor 16 Ewell and his remarks. 17 Q. Do you have any direct knowledge of any 18 contributions that were in favor of Ewell's viewpoint 19 that were excluded from the journal? 20 A. I am -- I am not aware of any submissions that 21 were turned away. 22 Q. Okay. 23 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to pass the witness, 24 Mary. 25 MS. QUIMBY: I'll reserve my questions for 147 1 trial. Thank you. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:46 p.m. 3 We are off the record. 4 (Proceedings adjourned at 12:46 p.m.) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 148 1 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE 2 WITNESS NAME: ANDREW JAY CHUNG 3 DATE OF DEPOSITION: October 15, 2024 4 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 5 _________________________________________________________ 6 _________________________________________________________ 7 _________________________________________________________ 8 _________________________________________________________ 9 _________________________________________________________ 10 _________________________________________________________ 11 _________________________________________________________ 12 _________________________________________________________ 13 _________________________________________________________ 14 _________________________________________________________ 15 _________________________________________________________ 16 _________________________________________________________ 17 _________________________________________________________ 18 _________________________________________________________ 19 _________________________________________________________ 20 _________________________________________________________ 21 _________________________________________________________ 22 _________________________________________________________ 23 _________________________________________________________ 24 _________________________________________________________ 25 _________________________________________________________ 149 1 _________________________________________________________ 2 _________________________________________________________ 3 _________________________________________________________ 4 _________________________________________________________ 5 _________________________________________________________ 6 I, ANDREW JAY CHUNG, have read the foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is 7 true and correct, except as noted above. 8 9 _________________________________ 10 ANDREW JAY CHUNG 11 12 STATE OF ______________) 13 COUNTY OF _____________) 14 Before me, ___________________________, on this day personally appeared ANDREW JAY CHUNG, known to me (or 15 proved to me under oath or through ___________________________) (description of identity 16 card or other document)) to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument and acknowledged 17 to me that they executed the same for the purposes and consideration therein expressed. 18 Given under my hand and seal of office this __________ day of ________________________, __________. 19 20 21 _________________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 22 THE STATE OF ____________________ COMMISSION EXPIRES: _____________ 23 24 25 150 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS 2 SHERMAN DIVISION 3 TIMOTHY JACKSON, X X 4 Plaintiff, X X 5 VS. X CASE ACTION X NO.: 4:21-cv-00033-ALM 6 LAURA WRIGHT, ET AL., X X 7 Defendants. X 8 --------------------------------------------------------- 9 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 10 DEPOSITION OF ANDREW JAY CHUNG 11 October 15, 2024 12 (Reported Remotely) 13 --------------------------------------------------------- 14 15 I, Jennifer L. Sanders, Certified Shorthand 16 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to 17 the following: 18 That the witness, ANDREW JAY CHUNG, was duly 19 sworn by the officer and that the transcript of the oral 20 deposition is a true record of the testimony given by the 21 witness; 22 That the deposition transcript was submitted on 23 to Ms. Mary Quimby, attorney for 24 ANDREW JAY CHUNG, for examination, signature and return 25 to me by ; 151 1 That the amount of time used by each party at 2 the deposition is as follows: 3 MR. MICHAEL THAD ALLEN: 3 Hour(s), 10 Minute(s) 4 5 That pursuant to information given to the 6 Deposition officer at the time said testimony was taken, 7 the following includes counsel for all parties of record: 8 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 9 MR. MICHAEL THAD ALLEN Allen Harris, PLLC 10 PO Box 404 Quaker Hill, Connecticut 06375 11 Office: 860-499-3399 Fax: 860-481-7899 12 Email: mallen@allenharrislaw.com 13 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 14 MS. MARY QUIMBY 15 Assistant Attorney General General Litigation Division 16 P.O. Box 12548 Austin, Texas 78711-2548 17 Office: 512-463-2100 Email: mary.quimby@oag.texas.gov 18 19 That $__________ is the deposition officer's 20 charges to Mr. Michael Thad Allen, Attorney for 21 Plaintiff, for preparing the original deposition 22 transcript and any copies of exhibits; 23 I further certify that I am neither counsel 24 for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties or 25 attorneys in the action in which this proceeding was 152 1 taken, and further that I am not financially or otherwise 2 interested in the outcome of the action. 3 Certified to by me this day of 4 , . 5 6 _________________________________ JENNIFER L. SANDERS, CSR No. 5091 7 Expiration Date: 10/31/26 JULIA WHALEY & ASSOCIATES 8 2012 Vista Crest Drive Carrollton, Texas 75007 9 Firm Registration No. 436 214-668-5578 (Office) 10 214-236-6666 (Fax) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25