1 CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY 2 PROBATE DIVISION CASE NO. 90-2908-GD3 3 ______________________________________ 4 IN RE: THE GUARDIANSHIP OF THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO, 5 Incapacitated. 6 ______________________________________ 7 MICHAEL SCHIAVO, AS GUARDIAN OF THE PERSON OF THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO, 8 Petitioner, 9 APPEAL vs. 10 ROBERT SCHINDLER AND MARY SCHINDLER, 11 Respondents. 12 ______________________________________ 13 BEFORE: GEORGE W. GREER Circuit Court Judge 14 PLACE: Clearwater Courthouse 15 Clearwater, FL 33756 16 DATE: January 24, 2000 17 TIME: 9:00 a.m. 18 REPORTED BY: Beth Ann Erickson, RPR Court Reporter 19 Notary Public ____________________________________ 20 21 TRIAL ____________________________________ 22 ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 23 501 South Fort Harrison Clearwater, Florida 33756 24 (813) 464-4858 Volume I Pages 1 - 175 25 2 1 APPEARANCES: 2 GEORGE J. FELOS, ESQUIRE CONSTANCE FELOS, ESQUIRE 3 640 Douglas Avenue Dunedin, FL 34698 4 5 Attorneys for Petitioner 6 PAMELA CAMPBELL, ESQUIRE 7 The Alexander Building 535 Central Avenue 8 Suite 403 St. Petersburg, FL 33701 9 10 Attorney for Respondents 11 12 INDEX Page 13 WITNESS MICHAEL SCHIAVO 14 Direct Examination by Mr. Felos 20 Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 74 15 Redirect Examination by Mr. Felos 89 16 SCOTT SCHIAVO Direct Examination by Mr. Felos 90 17 Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 108 Redirect Examination by Mr. Felos 117 18 JAMES BARNHILL, MD 19 Direct Examination by Ms. Felos 121 Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 159 20 Redirect Examination by Ms. Felos 171 21 EXHIBITS - PETITIONER'S 22 Page Exhibit No. 1 25 23 Exhibit No. 2 25 Exhibit No. 3 56 24 Exhibit No. 4 71 Exhibit No. 5 134 25 3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 THE BAILIFF: All rise. Circuit Court 3 in and for Pinellas County is now in session with 4 the Honorable George W. Greer, circuit court 5 judge, presiding. Be seated. 6 THE COURT: Good morning. Is the 7 petitioner ready to proceed? 8 MR. FELOS: Yes, we are, Your Honor. 9 MS. CAMPBELL: Yes, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Introduce those at counsel 11 table. 12 MR. FELOS: George Felos, Felos and 13 Felos PA. 14 MS. FELOS: Constance Felos, from the 15 firm of Felos and Felos, PA. This is the 16 petitioner, Michael Schiavo. 17 MS. CAMPBELL: Pam Campbell here 18 representing Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, the parents 19 of Theresa Schiavo and respondent, Bob Schindler, 20 father. My legal assistant, Theresa, and Mrs. 21 Schindler, the mother. 22 THE COURT: Opening statements? 23 MR. FELOS: We do have an opening 24 statement. Before we proceed, I notice there are 25 a number of witnesses here. Does the Court want 4 1 to swear in witnesses now and invoke the rule of 2 witnesses? 3 THE COURT: I'll swear the witnesses in 4 as they take the stand. The Court does not invoke 5 the rule. Do you wish to invoke the rule? 6 MR. FELOS: We wish to invoke the rule. 7 THE COURT: Aside from the parties, is 8 there anyone present that is a witness or intends 9 to be a witness in this case? 10 MS. CAMPBELL: Yes, Your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Sir, the rule has been 12 invoked, which is a rule of sequestration. What 13 that means is that the only time you can be 14 present in court is when you are testifying. From 15 this point forward, you are not to discuss your 16 testimony with anybody or the facts of this case 17 with anyone other than the lawyers, Ms. Campbell 18 or Mr. Felos -- you can talk to them -- but other 19 than that, you are not to discuss the case with 20 anyone. 21 So the bailiff will show you where you 22 can stay, if you are called to testify. Counsel, 23 be so kind as to advise your other witnesses that 24 the rule has been invoked. Very well. Mr. Felos? 25 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor. 5 1 Your Honor, in this case there are no winners. 2 Whatever the outcome of this case, everyone has 3 lost. A little less than ten years ago, February 4 1990, a beautiful vivacious young woman's heart 5 stopped beating. Her brain was deprived of oxygen 6 and since that time she's existed in a permanent 7 vegetative state, whereas her parents have agreed 8 in the pleadings, it's an irreversible, profoundly 9 debilitating condition. 10 On that day close to ten years ago, my 11 client, Mr. Schiavo, lost the wife he knew. Her 12 parents lost their dreams and hopes of a full life 13 with their daughter and her siblings, and friends 14 lost a shining presence in their lives. So in 15 this case, there is no final judgment order, 16 decree, that can ever bring Theresa Schiavo back. 17 If this Court grants the petition and 18 permits Theresa Schiavo's artificial life support 19 to be removed, all the parties will have to suffer 20 the agony of watching a beloved one die, even 21 though it is my client's belief and wish that is 22 what his wife wanted. If this Court does not 23 grant the petition, Theresa Schiavo's body will be 24 maintained in this condition, perhaps for decades, 25 and there is no victory or win in that for anyone. 6 1 The evidence will show in this case that 2 Theresa had a conventional childhood. She was 3 brought up by her parents. They were practicing 4 Catholics at the time. She meets Michael in 5 community college in the Philadelphia area. They 6 fall in love. They married. They lived there 7 from, as a married couple, from 1984 to 1986. 8 They met in 1982. They had a family oriented life 9 in Philadelphia, both with Michael and Theresa's 10 family. 11 They moved to Florida in 1986. She 12 worked for Prudential Insurance and he worked in 13 food service management as a restaurant manager, 14 assistant restaurant manager, working nights. You 15 will also hear evidence that Theresa once had a 16 weight problem. Was heavy in her early adulthood 17 and lost a significant amount of weight. You will 18 hear evidence that Theresa wanted to become 19 pregnant. Wanted to have a family. Was under a 20 doctor's care to become pregnant, and while under 21 that doctor's care, developed a potassium 22 imbalance which caused her heart to stop beating, 23 which caused the incident in question. 24 You will hear much evidence as to how 25 Mr. Schiavo cared for his wife. Fought for his 7 1 wife. Fought to get experimental treatment for 2 his wife. Raised funds for his wife to go out to 3 California and have electrical implants to try to 4 stimulate her brain. Engaged in fund raisers. 5 How he stayed with her for day and night for 6 periods of years. How he has been termed, as he 7 has been termed, as a nursing home administrator's 8 worst nightmare. How he has gotten for Theresa a 9 level of care that most other patients would not 10 have received. 11 You will hear evidence how he hired a 12 private aide over a 2-year period to take Theresa 13 out to museums, hairdressers, beauty makeovers, to 14 try to stimulate her in some hope that she may 15 improve or may revive. You will also hear 16 evidence from physicians, Your Honor, that there 17 is no hope of recovery for Theresa. That she is 18 in a permanent vegetative condition. 19 You will also hear doctor's evidence 20 that the process of removal of a feeding tube and 21 the death process involved there takes seven to 22 ten days. That a patient does not starve to 23 death. A patient quickly develops an electrolyte 24 imbalance which causes death within a short time, 25 and that death as a result of this process is not 8 1 painful. 2 You will hear disputed evidence as to 3 the cognition of Theresa Schiavo. I am sure you 4 will hear evidence by the respondent that they 5 believe Theresa is aware of their presence. 6 However, it is important for the Court to remember 7 that that is really a non issue in this case. The 8 major issue in this case is what Terri's intent 9 was. 10 And we will present testimony from Mr. 11 Schiavo and his brother and sister-in-law as to 12 conversations Theresa Schiavo had with them in 13 which she stated that if she had to be dependent 14 on the care of others, she would not want to live 15 that way. She would rather die. Also, if she was 16 in that condition, she would not want to be kept 17 alive or maintained artificially. Her wishes were 18 not contingent upon being totally unconscious or 19 vegetative, but broadly expressed in that way. So 20 although there may be dispute in this case as to 21 whether Theresa has some awareness of her 22 surroundings, minimal awareness, it really is a 23 non issue in terms of her expression of intent. 24 There may be some evidence that while 25 Theresa was living with her parents, she may have 9 1 made comments about the Karen Ann Quinlan case. 2 We believe that the Court will not find that 3 evidence particularly credible, and certainly if 4 it is, contrary to her later statements, would 5 have been a change of position for Theresa. 6 You will also receive testimony, Your 7 Honor, from some experts. One will be an expert 8 witness testifying as to the doctrine and policies 9 of the Catholic church regarding artificial life 10 support. That testimony will show that the 11 request of the petitioner in this case is highly 12 consistent with the teachings of the Catholic 13 faith. 14 You will also hear evidence from an 15 expert in America's attitudes and expressions 16 concerning end of life care, who will also testify 17 that the manner of expression, the manner in which 18 Theresa expressed her wishes, is very consistent 19 with how Americans do that. That usually these 20 statements are made as a catalyst to a particular 21 event and illness of a relative; watching a movie 22 or television program where someone is impaired. 23 That is how these expressions are usually and 24 customarily made. 25 You will also hear in this trial 10 1 testimony regarding the relationship between the 2 parties, the petitioner and respondents, which was 3 a good relationship and a supportive relationship 4 until the malpractice award was given in this 5 case. You will hear evidence that in 1992 a 6 verdict was issued in a medical malpractice case 7 brought on Theresa's behalf and Theresa, the 8 guardianship estate, netted over $700,000 and that 9 Mr. Schiavo netted approximately $300,000 in a 10 loss of consortium award. 11 You will hear evidence -- you will hear 12 testimony from the respondents that there was an 13 alleged agreement between Mr. Schiavo and the 14 respondents that he would split his loss of 15 consortium award with them. You will hear 16 testimony from Mr. Schiavo that that was not the 17 case. You will hear testimony that the 18 respondents were in significant financial 19 difficulties at that time and were upset that they 20 didn't receive a portion of Mr. Schiavo's award. 21 You will hear testimony of basically an 22 unfortunate falling apart of that relationship and 23 also testimony that shortly after that falling 24 apart, the respondents filed a suit in this court 25 to remove Mr. Schiavo as Theresa's guardian 11 1 alleging that he was in a relationship with 2 another woman, that he was not caring for her 3 medically, and that he had a financial conflict of 4 interest. You will hear testimony that that suit 5 was dismissed with prejudice by the respondents. 6 There will be testimony that three years 7 after Theresa's incident, yes, Mr. Schiavo did 8 have a relationship and is in a relationship 9 currently. You will hear testimony that, yes, Mr. 10 Schiavo wants to have a family in the future. He 11 wants to be a father in the future. And you will 12 also hear that that doesn't mean that he doesn't 13 love Terri and will always love Terri and wants 14 what's best for her. 15 You will hear testimony that it's always 16 been the respondents' wish for Mr. Schiavo to move 17 on with his life, and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler take 18 over the guardianship and take over the care of 19 Terri. You will hear testimony regarding the 20 Schindlers' beliefs concerning medical treatment 21 and their wishes concerning Terri. Terri's 22 medical treatment. Some of that evidence, which 23 may be disturbing. 24 You will hear testimony that the 25 Schindlers, if in Terri's condition, would want 12 1 all possible medical treatment to keep them alive 2 at all costs, even if they were permanently 3 unconscious. You will hear testimony that they 4 would choose chemotherapy. They would choose, if 5 they developed gangrene, they would choose to have 6 their limbs amputated to remain in a permanent 7 vegetative condition. 8 You will also hear testimony from 9 Theresa's father that if Terri needed open heart 10 surgery, he would choose to have open heart 11 surgery performed on her rather than have her die. 12 You will hear testimony from her father that if 13 Theresa developed gangrene and limbs needed to be 14 amputated, he would choose to have that for his 15 daughter. You will also hear testimony, 16 Your Honor, that those beliefs and intents have 17 nothing to do with being Catholic or part of the 18 Catholic faith. 19 You will hear -- I am sure you will hear 20 testimony in this case about the guardianship 21 estate, and yes, if Theresa Schiavo dies at this 22 time and the petition is granted, Mr. Schiavo will 23 inherit those funds of Theresa's Schiavo's 24 intestate. You will hear testimony that Mr. and 25 Mrs. Schindler also, if the petition is denied and 13 1 Mr. Schiavo does remarry, will be Theresa's 2 intestate heirs and will inherit. 3 At the end of the evidence, the Court I 4 believe will conclude that Mr. Schiavo is not 5 concerned with finances, with money, financial 6 gain, but always has been concerned with the best 7 interests of his wife. You will also hear 8 evidence regarding the time period that has 9 elapsed since Terri's incident and the request to 10 remove the feeding tube. It has been ten years, 11 and the argument has been made and was made by the 12 guardian ad litem's report that is in the file 13 that that somehow affects Mr. Schiavo's 14 credibility. 15 The Court will hear evidence for the 16 first four years or so that Mr. Schiavo 17 aggressively, aggressively treated or tried to 18 seek treatment for Terri in the hope of recovery. 19 Despite doctor's advice there was no hope, he did 20 not give up hope. And I believe the evidence will 21 show he can't be faulted for trying as hard as he 22 did to help his wife in the hope of recovery. 23 In 1994, at the suggestion of his 24 doctors, the Court will hear that Mr. Schiavo made 25 a decision not to treat an infection, which would 14 1 have resulted in Terri's death. In response to 2 that, Your Honor, the evidence will show that Mr. 3 and Mrs. Schindler amended their petition to 4 remove Mr. Schiavo as guardian, alleging he was 5 not treating the infection and alleging that 6 constituted an abuse of Terri. 7 The evidence will show that at that 8 time, my client was emotionally unable to proceed. 9 After making a decision not to treat an infection, 10 he was attacked for it and not emotionally able to 11 proceed with the removal of the feeding tube. 12 That about a year later, he started to take steps 13 to do that which has resulted in this petition. 14 The Court will, as part of the evidence 15 in this case, review the report of the guardian ad 16 litem and also the suggestion of bias filed in 17 response. The Court will also hear testimony that 18 the guardian ad litem at the time he issued his 19 report had one piece of evidence regarding Terri's 20 intent and that was the statements relayed to him 21 by Mr. Schiavo. You will hear the guardian ad 22 litem testify that had he known of the statements 23 of Mr. Schiavo's brother and sister in law, that 24 his conclusions may very well have been 25 different. 15 1 You will also hear testimony regarding 2 the guardian ad litem of his personal findings 3 regarding removal of feeding tubes. The guardian 4 ad litem has been very candid, and the evidence 5 will show, personally, he has great difficulty 6 with placing removal of artificial provision of 7 sustenance as medical treatment, which is the law 8 in Florida. 9 You will hear testimony of the guardian 10 ad litem to the effect that he believes patients 11 should not have the right, although the Supreme 12 Court of Florida has given the patient the right 13 to cease food and water, in his belief that should 14 not be the case and the patient should not have 15 that right. We will argue to the Court that may 16 have affected the close call, and I use the words 17 of the guardian ad litem, the close call he made 18 in his report. 19 We believe at the conclusion of the case 20 the Court will find clear and convincing evidence 21 that Theresa Schiavo would not want to be kept 22 alive in this condition and would want the feeding 23 tube removed. Also, if it's necessary for the 24 Court's determination, we believe the Court will 25 find the removal of the feeding tube is in Theresa 16 1 Schiavo's best interest. I say, if necessary, 2 Your Honor. 3 Obviously, the primary question before 4 the Court is Theresa's intent. If the Court does 5 not find clear and convincing intent, which we 6 believe the Court will do, but if that should 7 occur, we intend to argue to the Court that the 8 Court does have the authority, absent clear and 9 convincing evidence of intent under a best 10 interest test, to grant the petition. 11 Your Honor, in closing here, while the 12 petitioner agrees that life is sacred and should 13 be preserved, he also believes, and we will 14 suggest to the Court, that neither the law, nor 15 Theresa's religion, or moral dictates would 16 require that life be artificially preserved at all 17 costs. Thank you. 18 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Felos. 19 Ms. Campbell. 20 MS. CAMPBELL: Mr. Felos has already 21 very eloquently and accurately set forth a lot of 22 the history in this case going over the dates and 23 times of the testimony dictated here in the next 24 week. Our differences where we come is as to what 25 the Court will find and also the credibility of 17 1 the witnesses. 2 Mr. Felos has his witnesses that will 3 tell what Ms. Terri Schiavo's wishes would be 4 regarding the feeding tube. You will also hear 5 from our side of it. On our side, you will hear 6 from a long childhood friend of Terri's. You will 7 also hear from a co-worker that was more closely 8 related to Terri close to the time of the incident 9 of the accident, which was February of 1990. 10 You will hear a lot of medical testimony 11 concerning the persistent vegetative state that 12 Theresa Schiavo currently exists in. We do not 13 doubt she's in a permanent vegetative state. 14 However, a lot goes to the cognitive activity and 15 brain activity of Theresa Schiavo. In reading 16 through some of the medical records, you will hear 17 testimony about her no recognition. However, you 18 will hear testimony from our side there is 19 recognition. She does recognize her mother. 20 There is a videotape we would like for 21 the Court to see, very brief, that is a videotape 22 capturing this relationship between Terri and her 23 mother that was recently taken. The guardian ad 24 litem, Richard Pearse, who was appointed in this 25 case, he will be testifying. The guardian ad 18 1 litem was appointed to investigate and make a 2 report to this Court, which he did, which the 3 court file contains a copy of his report. 4 Mr. Pearse thoroughly investigated the 5 whole case and interviewed various witnesses; met 6 with people at the nursing home staff; saw 7 different physicians; and came to the ultimate 8 conclusion that the feeding tube should be 9 maintained. It's our position here that the 10 guiding case for the court in setting precedence 11 is the Estele Browning case, which sets forth that 12 clear and convincing evidence should be 13 established of the patient's wishes, and that if 14 it's oral evidence, that the petitioner would bear 15 the burden of showing this was by clear and 16 convincing evidence. 17 We do not believe, as the guardian ad 18 litem also found, that the evidence you will hear 19 is credible. We have contradictory evidence that 20 will show in fact that it is not credible as to 21 what her wishes her. You will also hear from her 22 long time childhood friend that when the Karen Ann 23 Quinlan case was being discussed in conversations 24 between Terri Schiavo and this long childhood 25 friend regarding the Karen Ann Quinlan case, which 19 1 we believe ultimately sets forth Terri's beliefs, 2 it would be in the situation she is in one that 3 she would not ultimately choose to be in the 4 situation she is in, but the circumstances she 5 faces, that Theresa Schiavo would want to maintain 6 her feeding tube. 7 As a public policy statement, we also 8 believe the Court is firmly held to review the 9 conflict of interest of Michael Schiavo and the 10 financial situation that would rest in the 11 intestate estate. There is case law precedent to 12 that which we will be arguing in our closing 13 argument that we believe firmly sets forth this 14 conflict of interest. Thank you and good luck for 15 this week. 16 THE COURT: Call your first witness. 17 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor. Call 18 Mr. Schiavo. 19 THE COURT: Call your first witness. 20 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor. Call 21 Mr. Schiavo. 22 (THEREUPON, THE WITNESS WAS SWORN ON OATH BY 23 THE COURT.) 24 25 20 1 DIRECT EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. FELOS: 3 Q State your full name and current address 4 for the record, please. 5 A My name is Michael Schiavo. My address 6 is 2807 Marie Court, Clearwater, Florida. 7 Q What is your date of birth? 8 A 4-3-63. 9 Q Mr. Schiavo, how are you employed at 10 this time? 11 A I work for Morton Plant/Mease 12 Countryside Hospital as a respiratory therapist. 13 Q Please tell the Court what your 14 employment background is. 15 A I worked for Morton Plant/Mease ever 16 since I became a respiratory therapist five years 17 ago. 18 Q Before that? 19 A I worked for various amounts of 20 restaurants. Right before I got into medical, I 21 worked for Agostino's Restaurant. 22 Q Um-hmm. 23 A Prior to that, I worked for the 24 Columbia. And prior to that, I worked for the 25 Breckenridge Hotel. 21 1 Q Tell the Court, please, what your 2 educational background is. 3 A I went to community college for about a 4 year-and-a-half in the Philadelphia area. Bucks 5 County Community College, starting, I believe, in 6 1983. Don't hold me to the dates. I'm not good 7 with dates. I went to St. Pete Junior College. I 8 received a certificate for my EMT license. 9 Q What is that? 10 A Emergency Medical Technician. I went 11 back to school and received an AS degree in 12 respiratory therapy and back to back received my 13 SA in nursing. I just took my boards and passed 14 last week. 15 Q Where did you grow up, Mr. Schiavo? 16 A Levittown, Pennsylvania. Suburb of 17 Philadelphia. 18 Q Tell us about your family background. 19 Are your parents alive? Do you have brothers and 20 sisters? 21 A I have four older brothers. My mother 22 is deceased. It will be three years in July. My 23 father is still alive living here in Florida. 24 Q Did you have a relationship with any of 25 your grandparents? 22 1 A Yes. I did. All my grandparents. 2 Q Do you recall, were any of your 3 grandparents on life support? 4 A Yes. My father's mother. 5 Q How did that come about? 6 A She had a heart attack. Prior to that, 7 she had open heart ten years prior to that. She 8 had a heart attack. She ended up on a ventilator, 9 which was against her wishes. She had a living 10 will in place. A DNR in place. 11 The doctors did intubate her. My family 12 showed up. It was told to the doctor this was not 13 her wishes. Her living will and DNR was shown to 14 the doctor, I believe, and the ventilator was 15 removed. 16 Q Where were you and Terri living when 17 your grandmother died? 18 A Here in Florida. St. Pete Beach. 19 Q Did you attend the funeral? 20 A Yes. We did. We flew up. 21 Q Did Terri know or have a relationship 22 with your grandmother? 23 A She had a close relationship with my 24 grandmother. 25 Q Do you recall any conversations at the 23 1 funeral, the funeral luncheon after that, 2 regarding the issue of your grandmother's life 3 support? 4 A I vaguely remember a conversation that 5 happened, but my brother, Scott, had the 6 conversation. He would know better about the 7 conversation. 8 Q Is there anyone in your family that has 9 a particular reputation for having a good memory? 10 A My brother, Scott. We always tease him 11 about having the mind of an elephant. 12 Q Please tell me how you and Terri met? 13 A At Bucks County Community College in one 14 of our classes. I can't remember which class it 15 was. 16 Q Tell us a little about your courtship 17 with Terri. 18 A Terri and I dated approximately about a 19 year. We did the usual things. Family parties. 20 Movies. We went to dinner a lot. We were engaged 21 probably about a year into our relationship. We 22 were engaged for a year before we got married. 23 Q When did you and Terri marry? 24 A November 10, 1984. 25 Q Where did that occur? 24 1 A In Huntingdon Valley, PA. 2 Q Is that a suburb? 3 A Suburb of Philadelphia. 4 Q Describe for us Terri's personality. 5 A She was a very outspoken person. She 6 believed in what she believed in. But on the 7 other hand, she had a heart of gold. Somebody 8 that was sweet. Very personable. You would meet 9 her and just be charmed with her. Somebody -- to 10 me, she was everything. 11 Q Before you met -- when you met Terri, 12 what was her weight? 13 A Approximately 155 pounds. 14 Q Before you met Terri, had she been 15 heavier? 16 A Yes. She was in her early childhood. 17 Q Did she lose any weight during the 18 course of your marriage? 19 A Terri lost weight throughout the course 20 of our marriage. Yes. She did. 21 Q I would like to show you, Mr. Schiavo, 22 Petitioner's Exhibit Number One and Number Two 23 marked for identification and ask you if you can 24 identify what those are, please. 25 A This young lady right here is Terri. 25 1 That is her sister, Suzanne. This is when they 2 used to go away to -- I forget. They used to stay 3 at a hotel every year. This is Terri in Florida, 4 I believe. Actually on our honeymoon. This is 5 Terri and I. This is a good picture of her. This 6 is Terri right before we left for Florida. This 7 is Terri right here at her brother's graduation. 8 Q In Petitioner's Exhibit Number One, was 9 that the weight of Terri approximately at the time 10 you married her? 11 A The bottom picture? No. 12 Q The top picture? 13 A The top picture, yes. 14 Q In Petitioner's Exhibit Number Two, is 15 that Terri's approximate weight during your 16 marriage? 17 A Yes. 18 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, we move to 19 introduce these photos into evidence. 20 THE COURT: Is there an objection? 21 MS. CAMPBELL: No objection, Your Honor. 22 THE COURT: So received. 23 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBITS NUMBERS 1 & 24 2 WERE RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 25 Q (By Mr. Felos) Now that the Court has 26 1 had the benefit to see the photographs, I'd like 2 to bring your attention to Petitioner's Exhibit 3 One. If you can explain to the Court what those 4 two pictures are? 5 A The bottom picture here was Terri at a 6 younger age. This is on a family vacation. To 7 the right of her, far right, is her sister, 8 Suzanne. The top picture is, I believe is -- that 9 was our honeymoon. 10 Q Okay. Now Petitioner's Exhibit Number 11 Two, can you explain when approximately these 12 pictures were taken, and where, starting with the 13 upper left? 14 A The upper left, that is Terri and I 15 outside of our apartment at Thunder Bay. I don't 16 know the approximate year of that. Date. To the 17 right of that is a party thrown for us about a 18 week before we left for Florida. That is my 19 mother with her back toward you. My brother and 20 sister-in-law. 21 Down on the bottom on the left with the 22 truck leasing, that is her brother's graduation. 23 That is Terri in the white. That is her sister in 24 the black. To the right of that, that is a 25 picture at Disney World. I believe that is -- I 27 1 don't know the approximate date on that one. 2 The bottom, that is Terri bending down 3 with the blond hair to the right of Santa Claus in 4 the back with the red suit. That is approximately 5 about six or so months prior to her accident. 6 Q Did you notice that Terri was losing 7 weight during the course of the marriage? 8 A Yes. I did. 9 Q To your knowledge, while living with 10 Terri, did you know whether or not she ever had an 11 eating disorder such as anorexia or bulimia? 12 A I did not. No. There was speculation 13 made to that, but there was nothing ever proven in 14 court as to that diagnosis. 15 Q Once you were married, tell us the type 16 of things that Terri and you liked to do together. 17 A After we are were married, I did work a 18 lot. I worked a lot of nights. On the days off 19 that I did have, we would go to the movies. Spent 20 a lot of time with her parents. We would go out 21 to dinner a lot. Spend time at home. 22 Q Were you in love with your wife? 23 A I was deeply in love with my wife and I 24 still am. 25 Q How long did you live in Philadelphia 28 1 after your marriage in 1984? 2 A I believe -- don't hold me to dates. I 3 believe about a year-and-a-half. I'm sure we left 4 for Florida in 1986. 5 Q Did you and Terri socialize with any of 6 your family members? 7 A All the time. We went to frequent 8 birthday parties. We had a lot of little kids. 9 We went to adult parties. Kids' parties. 10 Holidays. We spent a lot of time with family. 11 Q Where did your parents and siblings live 12 at that time? 13 A I'm sorry? 14 Q Where did your parents and siblings live 15 at that time? 16 A My parents lived in Levittown, 17 Pennsylvania. My brother, one brother in Trevose, 18 Pennsylvania. One brother lived in Fairless 19 Hills. One brother lived in Philadelphia. One 20 brother was not married yet. Kind of lived with 21 my parents and had his own place for a while. 22 Q Was that all in the greater Philadelphia 23 area? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Was Terri particularly close to any of 29 1 your brothers or sister-in-laws? 2 A Terri was very close with my brothers. 3 Especially my sister-in-laws and especially my 4 sister-in-law, Joan. They were best friends. 5 Q At that time, how would you describe 6 your relationship with Terri's parents and family 7 while you were living in Philadelphia? 8 A I believe we had a close relationship. 9 She was very close with her brother, Bobby. She 10 was not so close with her sister, Suzanne. 11 Q Did Terri have any close friends in 12 particular in the Philadelphia area? 13 A She had a very close friend, Sue Cobb. 14 She had other acquaintances. Other friends. 15 Q Why is it that you and Terri decided to 16 move to Florida? 17 A We were over the cold. We wanted 18 something new. 19 Q After you and Terri were married, but 20 before you moved to Florida, did you ever take any 21 trips here? 22 A Yes. We did. I remember one 23 especially. 24 Q What was particularly special about that 25 trip? 30 1 A That is before we left her grandmother 2 was gravely ill. 3 Q Um-hmm. Did Terri have any concerns 4 about taking the trip to Florida given her 5 grandmother's condition? 6 A She was very concerned. She did not 7 want to leave her grandmother. She was pretty ill 8 at the time. She was in the hospital in intensive 9 care. 10 Q Do you know why she decided to take the 11 trip? 12 A Her mother told us to go. 13 Q Did the subject of Terri's grandmother 14 -- by the way, did you fly, drive, or take the 15 train? 16 A We took a train. 17 Q Did the subject of Terri's grandmother 18 come up at all during that train trip? 19 A Yes. It did. We were taking the train 20 trip. We are sitting there. Terri was reading a 21 book. She put the book down and looked at me. 22 She says, "I'm kind of concerned about leaving." 23 I told her, "Your mom said to go." She says, 24 "Well, I'm concerned about my grandmother. What 25 if she dies? Who is going to take care of my 31 1 uncle?" She says, "If I ever have to be a burden 2 to anybody, I don't want to live like that." 3 Q You made reference -- did you say 4 anything in response to that? 5 A I told her that -- I told her that she 6 should remember that for me, too. 7 Q Do you know why Terri made a reference 8 to her uncle in connection with her grandmother's 9 illness? 10 A Years prior, her uncle was in a severe 11 car accident. He was depressed because his wife 12 and child were killed in a car accident. They 13 were hit by a train coming here from the mall. He 14 became, as what Terri says, severely depressed. 15 Had a few drinks one night. Went out. On the 16 drive home, he hit a tree. He ended up in a comma 17 for a few weeks. 18 When he came out of his comma, he was 19 pretty much severely handicapped. Had a lot of 20 impediments. Had to live with his mother. 21 Q Did -- regarding Terri's uncle, did you 22 ever meet him? 23 A Yes. I did. 24 Q You observed his condition? 25 A Yes. 32 1 Q Did you observe any infirmities in the 2 uncle? 3 A Her uncle had paralyzed -- I believe his 4 right arm was paralyzed, I believe. He had a 5 severe limp. He used a cane. He had slurred 6 speech. Difficulty. He had to sit for long 7 periods. He could not get up and move around a 8 lot. Difficulty in thought processes, I believe. 9 That he could not process his thoughts quick 10 enough with his answers. 11 Q Again, why was Terri concerned about her 12 uncle because of her grandmother? 13 A Because he lived with the grandmother 14 and she basically helped take care of him. 15 Q After -- by the way, after the 16 conversation on the train, what happened to 17 Terri's grandmother? 18 A She died while we were here in Florida. 19 Q Michael, did you have any other 20 conversations at all with Terri about removal of 21 life support? 22 A Yes. I did. 23 Q Tell us about those, please. 24 A Terri and I would be home. We would be 25 watching TV. You know, a documentary would come 33 1 on. It would depict you know adults, children 2 that are being sustained and kept alive by parents 3 at home. People that had to be on ventilators. 4 People getting tube feedings. Medications 5 throughout. IVs. 6 She made the comment to me that she 7 would never want to be like that. Don't ever keep 8 her alive on anything artificial. She did not 9 want to live like that. I looked at her and I 10 said do the same for me. 11 Q Do you recall how many conversations 12 like that you had with Terri in response to a TV 13 program or documentary? 14 A It was two, two or three times. 15 Q When you moved to Florida, when you 16 first moved to Florida, where did you live? 17 A We lived in the Schindler's condominium. 18 Q How long did you live there? 19 A Approximately a year. 20 Q Did you pay rent? 21 A We paid rent when we could. The 22 Schindlers were gracious enough to let us slide 23 when we had to. Terri was not working at the 24 time. 25 Q Okay. Then after living in Mr. and Mrs. 34 1 Schindler's condo, where did you live? 2 A We moved to Thunder Bay apartments on 3 4th Street. 4 Q St. Petersburg? 5 A St. Petersburg. 6 Q Tell us a little bit about the logistics 7 of your life down here in terms of schedule. You 8 said Terri did not work initially. Did she 9 eventually find employment? 10 A Terri did not work initially. I started 11 work at Olga's Kitchen as a manager. Terri did 12 not work for a while. About four months. She 13 previously worked at Prudential up north, and she 14 went to Prudential here and they hired her on as a 15 transfer. That is where she stayed. 16 Q Was that Prudential Securities? 17 Prudential Insurance? 18 A Prudential Insurance. 19 Q Did Terri work days or nights? 20 A Days. 21 Q What were your hours? 22 A My hours usually were 4:00 to close. 23 3:00 to close. 24 Q Closing is? 25 A Sometimes midnight. Sometimes 11:00. 35 1 Sometimes I was home at 1:00 in the morning. 2 Q How did Terri feel about you working all 3 those nights? 4 A She was not particularly thrilled with 5 it, but she knew I had to do that. 6 Q Did the two of you -- did Terri have any 7 particularly close friends at Prudential? 8 A She had acquaintances. She had 9 friends. I would not say they were close. 10 Q Did the two of you have any close mutual 11 friends here in Florida? 12 A We did not have mutual friends. We had 13 acquaintances we both knew. We did not have any 14 close mutual friends. 15 Q Did Terri's parents move to Florida at 16 some time? 17 A I believe it was a year later after 18 Terri and I moved here. 19 Q After the Schindlers moved to Florida, 20 but before Terri's medical accident, how would you 21 describe the relationship you and Terri had with 22 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler? 23 A I'm sorry. Repeat that question. 24 Q Once the Schindlers moved to Florida, 25 how would you describe the relationship you and 36 1 Terri had with her parents down here? Did you see 2 each other often? 3 A Terri saw the Schindlers probably more 4 than I did. In my own opinion, I thought we were 5 pretty close. 6 Q Tell me a little bit about -- tell us a 7 little about Terri's religious practice from the 8 time you knew her. Well, do you know what faith 9 Terri was brought up? 10 A Terri was brought up Catholic. 11 Q During the time that you knew Terri or 12 let's say from the time you were married, how 13 often would Terri go to mass? 14 A I'm sorry. Repeat that for me, George. 15 Q How often would Terri go to mass? 16 A Not very often. Once every few months. 17 Q Did you go with her? 18 A Yes. I did. 19 Q Every time? 20 A Yes. I did. 21 Q Did Terri ever receive communion when 22 she attended mass? 23 A No. She did not. 24 Q Did Terri ever participate in the 25 sacrament of confession? 37 1 A No. She did not. 2 Q Did you and Terri ever consider having a 3 family? 4 A Yes. We did. 5 Q What was -- what were your feelings 6 about that and Terri's feelings? 7 A Terri adored children. She wanted 8 children desparately, as I did. 9 Q Was there a time when the two of you 10 actually decided to start a family? 11 A Yes. It was --we decided to wait about 12 five years before we really wanted to start a 13 family. It was probably the beginning of 1989 we 14 started, I believe. 15 Q Did Terri ever become pregnant? 16 A No. She did not. 17 Q What was the difficulty? 18 A Terri was not receiving her period. 19 Q Did you or Terri ever seek medical 20 advice or treatment regarding your desire to have 21 children? 22 A Terri did. Yes. She was seeing a 23 family physician and a gynecologist. 24 Q Who was that? 25 A The gynecologist was Dr. Egel. 38 1 Q Did Dr. Egel -- 2 A Egel. E-g-e-l. 3 Q What time period was Terri consulting 4 with Dr. Egel in an effort to become pregnant? 5 A I believe starting in the beginning of 6 1989. 7 Q How long did her -- how long did she go 8 to Dr. Egel? 9 A For a period of about a year. 10 Q Michael, tell me what occurred on 11 February 25, 1990. 12 A I got home late from work that night. I 13 came in the house. Terri woke up. She heard me. 14 I gave her a kiss good night. She gave me a kiss 15 good night. A few hours later, I was getting out 16 of bed for some reason and I heard this thud. So 17 I ran out into the hall and I found Terri on the 18 floor. I knelt down next to her and I turned her 19 over because she sort of fell on her face. On her 20 stomach and face. 21 I turned her over going, "Terri, Terri. 22 You okay?" She kind of had this gurgling noise. 23 I laid her down and ran over and called 911. I 24 was hysterical. I called 911. I called her 25 brother, who lived in the same complex as we did. 39 1 I ran back to Terri. She was not moving. I held 2 her in my arms until her brother got there. I 3 rocked her. I didn't know what to do. I was 4 hysterical. It was a horrible moment. 5 Q Do you know how long it was before the 6 paramedics came? 7 A Had to be a good six minutes or so. 8 Q What happened when the paramedics came? 9 A I moved away. Her brother was sitting 10 in the kitchen around the corner. I moved away 11 and they started working on Terri. They put the 12 leads on. I heard them say she is flat line. 13 Start CPR. I am standing there going what is 14 happening here? Why is this happening? Why isn't 15 her heart beating? I was just a mess. I was 16 hysterical. 17 Q Where did the paramedics take her? 18 A To Humana Northside, St. Pete. 19 Q Did you ride with the paramedics? 20 A Yes. I did. 21 Q What is Terri's condition as a result of 22 the incident that occurred on February 25, 1990? 23 A She's in a chronic vegetative state 24 anoxic encephalopathy due to cardiac arrest. 25 Q For those of us who did not go to school 40 1 in medicine -- 2 A Lack of oxygen because her heart was not 3 pumping to her brain. 4 Q Can Terri run? 5 A No. 6 Q Can Terri walk? 7 A No. 8 Q Can Terri stand on her own? 9 A No. She can't. 10 Q Sit on her own? 11 A No. She can't. 12 Q Can Terri turn over? 13 A No. She can't. 14 Q Does she talk? 15 A No. 16 Q Can she eat? 17 A No. 18 Q Can she drink? 19 A No. She can't. 20 Q Can she swallow? 21 A No. 22 Q Can she go the bathroom? 23 A No. 24 Q Can she brush her teeth? 25 A No. 41 1 Q Can Terri clip her fingernails? 2 A No. 3 Q Comb her hair? 4 A No. 5 Q Can Terri dress herself? 6 A No. She cannot. 7 Q How are all those activities done for 8 Terri? 9 A I have her in a nursing home. The 10 facility employees do all that for her. She has 11 to be intubated by one person. She wears a diaper 12 which has to be cleaned, and you know, whether she 13 has a BM, they have to change the diaper. Clean 14 her. She has her period, which is at times 15 extremely heavy and messy. They have to clean 16 her. They have to do her hair. Her teeth. They 17 have to do total care for Terri. 18 She can't turn. They have to come in 19 every two hours and turn her. They have to place 20 her in a chair. They have to put the side rails 21 up on the chair to hold her in place. 22 Q Is there a neck support on the chair? 23 A Concave headrest more of. Her head fits 24 into the support. 25 Q In addition to the total care Terri has 42 1 received, I would like you to tell the Court some 2 of the additional medical problems Terri has had. 3 A Terri has had numerous, numerous urinary 4 tract infections. She has had her left little toe 5 removed due to osteomyelitis. 6 Q What is that? 7 A Bone infection that was caused by a 8 pressure sore. 9 Q Has Terri ever had to be hospitalized 10 because of the urinary tract infections? 11 A Yes, she has. Numerous amounts of time 12 for that. 13 Q For the removal of her toe? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Go on. 16 A She has kidney stones. She had her 17 gallbladder removed. 18 Q Did that require hospitalization? 19 A Yes. It did. 20 Q She had vaginitis. She had pelvic 21 inflammatory disease. She had I believe two D and 22 Cs. 23 Q Did the pelvic inflammatory disease, or 24 D and Cs, require hospitalization? 25 A Twenty-four hour admits. 43 1 Q Um-hmm. 2 A She has had respiratory problems. She 3 had dehydration. 4 Q What respiratory problems? 5 A Upper congestion. She can't control her 6 gag. When she fills up, she has to be constantly 7 suctioned down her nose or in the back of her 8 throat. She was put on some aerosol medications 9 that helped dry and relieve the congestion. She 10 has to be watched at those points because she 11 can't control her gag and she will choke. 12 Q Has Terri been hospitalized due to 13 respiratory infections? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Go on, please. 16 A I lost my train of thought. 17 Q Did Terri ever suffer seizures? 18 A Yes. She's suffered seizures. She 19 makes constant muscle twitching. She has severe 20 contractures of the hands, the elbows, the knees, 21 the feet. Her foot drop is to the point where -- 22 Q What is a foot drop? 23 A Foot drop is where your foot drops and 24 sticks into a certain spot. Her feet are 25 basically lower than her leg, when she sticks it 44 1 out. She's had a couple cysts removed off her 2 neck. Numerous amounts of things. I'm trying to 3 think. She has a food tube that has been infected 4 a few times that she had to be taken to the doctor 5 to remove. 6 Q Gastronomy tube? 7 A Yes. Infection. Inflammation around 8 that. Due to contractures in elbows, now the skin 9 in between is starting to break down. She's had, 10 she has constant diarrhea which leads to 11 dehydration which leads to -- 12 Q Has she ever been hospitalized for 13 dehydration or diarrhea? 14 A She has in the past. This previous 15 dehydration she stayed in the nursing home. 16 Q Michael, you have spent more time with 17 Terri and have seen Terri more often than anyone 18 since her incident. Have you ever seen any 19 voluntary or volitional response on her part in 20 all these years? 21 A I have not. 22 Q Does Terri, does Terri emit any noises? 23 Does her face move? Her head? 24 A Terri will moan, but it's not to 25 anything. We could -- I could be sitting next to 45 1 her and she will start to moan. Her eyes will 2 blink. Her head will kind of twitch. It will 3 kind of move itself. She also has -- she goes 4 into this spasm where she will hyperflex her neck 5 and will make these noises. 6 She will move her, I shouldn't say -- 7 her arms move to where it looks like it is 8 tightening up and she is almost sitting in like a 9 praying mantis position. I have never ever seen 10 Terri have any voluntary movement or follow 11 through with any commands. 12 Q Does Terri have tears at times? 13 A I have noticed she had a tear or two, 14 but to me it was after she would kind of take a 15 big deep breath. Almost looks like a yawn, and 16 her eyes would tear. 17 Q Have you ever seen Terri laugh or smile? 18 A I have not seen Terri laugh or smile? 19 She makes a moaning noise and her mouth opens up 20 kind of, but I would not call that a smile. 21 Q Do you know of any treatment method or 22 drug or thing that can be done which will improve 23 Terri's condition? 24 A No. I don't. 25 Q Has any doctor informed you there is any 46 1 treatment method, drug, or thing that can be done 2 to improve Terri's condition? 3 A No. 4 Q What steps, if any, did you take in 5 order to try to improve Terri's condition? 6 A When this first happened I, you know, 7 she was at Bayfront for rehab. And we found this 8 doctor in California that was doing experimental 9 surgeries on people that are in vegetative 10 states. He was placing a stimulator inside their 11 brain in hopes that that would stimulate the 12 dormant cells that were not actually dead yet. I 13 took her there. 14 The doctor was Hoshibushi (phonetic). 15 He was doing experimental surgery. The protocol 16 was one month. There was no improvement from 17 that. I brought Terri back. I hired a private 18 aide. 19 Q Let me backtrack. When was it that you 20 brought Terri to California? Do you recall? 21 A I believe '91. '92. 22 Q That was before the medical malpractice 23 award? 24 A Yes. It was. 25 Q How did you come by the funds in order 47 1 to send Terri to California? 2 A We were on the news. I sold hot dogs on 3 St. Pete Beach. Sold pretzels. The association 4 where we lived got involved with us. Had a 5 Valentine's dance for her. They helped. We 6 raised some money to get her out there. 7 Q Did you go to California with Terri? 8 A Yes. I did. 9 Q You mentioned that stimulators were put 10 into Terri. Where were they put into Terri? 11 A Into her brain. Right on top of the 12 gray matter, which is the top part of your brain. 13 Q How were they -- were these electric 14 stimulators? 15 A It looked like your hand and had wires 16 that came out at a certain point of your brain. 17 It was electrodes in the back. I don't want to 18 say electrodes. I don't know what it was called. 19 Placed here that the wires ran off of. Ran down 20 the side of her neck and would go into her chest. 21 It looked like a pacemaker. They turn off and on 22 at that point. 23 Q An external device? 24 A Right. 25 Q You mentioned when you came back you 48 1 hired a private aide? 2 A Yes. I did. 3 Q Tell me why you did that. 4 A To continue to stimulate Terri. I 5 wanted to make sure she was dressed in everday 6 clothes. I had Diane take her to museums. I had 7 Diane make sure when I was not there that she was 8 taken her for walks. I had Diane take her to 9 museums. To beauty makeovers. I made Terri's 10 hair done the way she did it. Makeup on. 11 Earrings. Necklaces. 12 Q Were any of these efforts successful, 13 Mike? 14 A No. They were not. 15 Q Have you ever received any opinion from 16 any doctor or physician to the effect that Terri 17 has any mental ability? 18 A No. I have not. 19 Q Any opinion from any doctor or physician 20 that she has any cognitive skill or cognitive 21 interaction with her environment? 22 A No. I have not. 23 Q I would like to outline with you Terri's 24 care after the accident. You mentioned that she 25 went to Humana Northside? 49 1 A Yes. She did. 2 Q How long was she in Humana Northside? 3 A Approximately two-and-a-half months. 4 Q Was she in the ICU? 5 A Yes. She was. I spent the first 6 sixteen days and nights there. Never left her. 7 Q Where did you sleep? 8 A Sometimes right next to her. Sometimes, 9 most of the times, out in the waiting room on the 10 chairs. 11 Q After those first sixteen days, did 12 you -- how often did you see Terri at Humana 13 Northside? 14 A I came every day. 15 Q Where did Terri go after Humana 16 Northside? 17 A She went to College Harbor. 18 Q What type of facility is that? 19 A Skilled nursing. 20 Q How long did you see Terri at College 21 Harbor? 22 A I saw Terri every day. 23 Q How much time did you spend? 24 A I went in the morning. Left in the 25 evening. Spent 8, 10, 12 hours a day. 50 1 Q After College Harbor, where did Terri 2 go? 3 A She went to Bayfront -- 4 Q Um-hmm. 5 A -- Medical Center under the care of 6 Dr. Baras. 7 Q What was the purpose of Bayfront? 8 A She had 90 days of skilled rehab. 9 Q Was there any problem in getting the 10 insurance money for Bayfront? 11 A Yes. There was. I had to actually 12 fight the insurance company for that. 13 Q What type of rehabilitation was given to 14 Terri at Bayfront? 15 A Aggressive rehabilitation. They also 16 got to take the trach out. Remove the trach. 17 Q When you say rehabilitation, is that 18 physical therapy? 19 A Physical, occupational. Special 20 therapists worked with her. 21 Q Other than removing the trach, was 22 there any improvement in Terri's condition? 23 A No. There was not. 24 Q How often did you see Terri at Bayfront? 25 A I was there every day. 51 1 Q Where did Terri go after Bayfront? 2 A She went to my home. 3 Q How long was Terri at home? 4 A Approximately four months, I believe. 5 Q Who took care of her at your home? 6 A I did 98 percent of it. My 7 mother in law did help. My father-in-law 8 basically did not do much at all. 9 Q Were your in-laws living with you at 10 that time? 11 A Yes. They were. 12 Q Why is it you said she was home for 13 about four months? Why didn't she stay home 14 longer than that? 15 A Because Terri needs total care. It is a 16 lot of work. We could not afford nurses. I could 17 not do it by myself. My mother-in-law was afraid 18 to have her there. My father-in-law was concerned 19 about that. 20 Q Did your mother-in-law express why she 21 was afraid? 22 A In case something happened to Terri that 23 she didn't know how to do. 24 Q After Terri was at home, where did she 25 go? 52 1 A She went back to College Harbor. 2 Q How long was she there? 3 A She was there for a couple of weeks. 4 Q How often did you see her at College 5 Harbor? 6 A Every day. 7 Q And from College Harbor? 8 A She went to California. 9 Q Where were you in California for this 10 experimental treatment? 11 A We went to the University of California 12 at San Francisco Hospital. 13 Q How long were you there? 14 A At the hospital, itself, we were there 15 about a week. For the rehab portion, we were 16 there about a month. A little over a month and a 17 week. 18 Q How often did you see Terri in the 19 hospital in the rehab in California? 20 A At the hospital, I stayed in her room 24 21 hours a day. I slept in a cot next to her. At 22 the rehab center, I was there every day with her. 23 Morning, noon, and night. 24 Q When you came home from California, 25 where did Terri go? 53 1 A She came home with us, with me, for a 2 couple of weeks. 3 Q Who took care of her at home? 4 A I did, plus we were able to, since we 5 had the money from the fund raisers, we were able 6 to afford a couple of nurses to come in and help 7 us. 8 Q After Terri was at home a short time, 9 after that where did she go? 10 A Bradenton Medical Rehab. 11 Q What type of institution is Mediplex 12 (phonetic)? 13 A Mediplex deals mainly with brain 14 injury, strokes, anything that has to do with the 15 brain. 16 Q How long was Terri at Mediplex in 17 Bradenton? 18 A Approximately three months. 19 Q Why did Terri leave Mediplex? 20 A Because the doctors informed us there 21 was nothing more they can do for Terri and we had 22 to find a facility to put her in or take her home. 23 Q How often did you see Terri at Mediplex 24 in Bradenton? 25 A Every day. 54 1 Q Where did Terri go after Mediplex? 2 A Sabal Palms. 3 Q where is that located? 4 A In Largo, I believe. 5 Q At Sabal Palms, did you have any 6 conflicts or disputes with the nursing home 7 regarding Terri's case? 8 A Yes. I did. I had many conflicts and 9 disputes. They had a lot of agency nurses on the 10 floor and they did not have enough staff. Terri 11 was getting the wrong medications. Terri was 12 laying in her dirty diaper for hours and hours on 13 end. Many grievances. She was not getting her 14 shower. Her teeth were not getting done. her 15 medication to her mouth was not put on. When she 16 had the osteomyelitis, it was not cleaned properly 17 after the hospitalization. 18 They did not have enough CNAs on the 19 floor to care for the people and the amount of 20 care that was needed for certain people. 21 Q What did you do to make sure that those 22 deficiencies did not affect Terri's care? 23 A I went through the grievance policy that 24 they give to the family members when there is a 25 problem. 55 1 Q What were those? 2 A It was a form you filled out. The 3 grievance. You handed it in. The Director of 4 Nurses would read them and supposedly they would 5 fix them. And they would write you a little 6 letter back, and most of the time nothing was done 7 because they did not have enough staff to handle 8 the problems. 9 Q Were you a particularly popular person 10 with the nursing home administration? 11 A No. I was not. 12 Q At some point, did the nursing home take 13 some sort of legal action against you? 14 A Yes. They did. 15 Q Tell us about that, please. 16 A They basically tried to have me 17 restrained from the nursing home. 18 Q What was -- how did that play out, 19 Mr. Schiavo? 20 A It kind of coincided with the 21 Schindler's petition. 22 Q Was the nursing home successful? 23 A They were not. 24 Q Did the court appoint a guardian ad 25 litem to investigate the nursing home charges? 56 1 A Yes. 2 Q Did the guardian ad litem issue a 3 report? 4 A Yes. He did. 5 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, we, at the 6 status conference last week, agreed to take 7 judicial notice of the prior matters in the file, 8 but for convenience, I would like to introduce 9 into evidence Petitioner's Exhibit Number Three 10 which are certain pleadings and documents from 11 prior proceedings. 12 THE COURT: Is there an objection? 13 MS. CAMPBELL: No, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Thank you. They will be 15 received as Petitioner's Number Three. 16 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 3 WAS 17 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 18 Q (By Mr. Felos) Mr. Schiavo, I would 19 like you to read a paragraph from the report of 20 John Pacaric, (phonetic). Report of the guardian 21 ad litem. This is the paragraph that starts on 22 the bottom of Page 2 of the report and ends on top 23 of Page 3. 24 A The guardian of the person, Michael 25 Schiavo, is reported by everyone interviewed to be 57 1 attentive to the pleas of his wife. He is at the 2 nursing home on almost a daily basis. He is 3 constantly reviewing the ward's chart at the 4 nursing home and not hesitant to point out errors 5 and omissions in the care of his wife. There are 6 reported incidents of the guardian yelling and 7 screaming in the hallways, nurses in tears, and 8 intimidation of the staff by Mr. Schiavo. 9 Although I have concluded Mr. Schiavo is 10 a nursing home administrator's nightmare, I 11 believe that the ward gets care and attention from 12 the staff at Sabal Palms as a result of Mr. 13 Schiavo's advocacy and defending on her behalf. A 14 family member of another resident at Sabal Palms 15 reports that his relative receives less care as a 16 result of the staff spending so much time with 17 Mrs. Schiavo. 18 Q How often did you see Terri at Sabal 19 Palms? 20 A Every day at Sabal Palms. 21 Q How long was she there? 22 A Approximately two years, I want to say. 23 Q How long would you see her? 24 A Um, 8, 10 hours a day. 25 Q Did you have a dispute with Mr. and Mrs. 58 1 Schindler at Sabal Palms Nursing Home in February 2 of 1993? 3 A Yes. I did. 4 Q Describe, please, what happened at Sabal 5 Palms on February 14, 1993. 6 A February 14th I was in Theresa's room. 7 I had the door closed. I was studying for some 8 homework I had. The Schindlers came into the room 9 and they went over and said hello to Theresa. The 10 first words out of my father-in-law's mouth was 11 how much money he was going to get. I was, what 12 do you mean? Well, you owe me money. 13 I said to him to stop everything. I 14 said I did not receive any money. I gave it all 15 to Terri. He then, in turn, pointed at Terri and 16 said how much money is she going to give me. I 17 said to him you need to talk to the guardian of 18 the property. I'm not that person. With that, he 19 call me a few choice words, went out and slammed 20 the door. 21 With those words, I followed him and my 22 mother-in-law stepped in the way. She started 23 saying this is my daughter, our daughter, and we 24 deserve some of that money. 25 Q Mr. Schiavo, do you know what money 59 1 Mr. Schindler was talking about? 2 A He was talking about the award that I 3 received. 4 Q Approximately how much did you receive 5 net in your loss of consortium award? 6 A Approximately 300,000. 7 Q Was Mr. Schindler -- let me backtrack. 8 When did that case come to trial? 9 A The malpractice? 10 Q Yes. 11 A Um. 12 Q Does November '92 sound right to you? 13 A Yes. 14 Q How much in funds did Terri receive net? 15 A I think she netted 700,000. 16 Q Who was sued? 17 A The doctors were. Doctor Egel and 18 Power. 19 Q The gynecologist Terri was seeing to 20 become pregnant? 21 A Right. And the family doctor. 22 Q Was Mr. Schindler aware of the 23 malpractice proceeding? 24 A Yes. 25 Q He attended the trial? 60 1 A Yes. 2 Q Do you know whether or not he was there 3 the day the verdict was entered? 4 A Yes. He was there with pencil and 5 paper. He wrote the verdict amounts down to the 6 point that he was so upset that he thought the 7 judge did not calculate right. He could not go to 8 work the next day. 9 Q Did Mr. Schindler ever tell you why he 10 thought he was entitled to a portion of your loss 11 of consortium award? 12 A Because it was his daughter and he 13 deserved it. 14 Q Did you ever say to Mr. and Mrs. 15 Schindler that you would split with them your loss 16 of consortium award or pay them any portion of it? 17 A No. I did not. 18 Q I think you testified that you told 19 Mr. Schindler that you gave your money away? 20 A Yes. I did. 21 Q Was that a correct statement? 22 A No. It was not. 23 Q Why did you say this? 24 A Just basically to shut him up because he 25 was screaming. 61 1 Q At that time, in that dispute with 2 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler that day, was there any 3 discussion of lawsuits or lawyers? 4 A Yes. I got through. My mother-in-law 5 went outside. He was standing there. His fists 6 were clenched. He got in my face. Said he's 7 coming down on me. Going to get on this 8 guardianship and he was going to get a lawyer. 9 Q At any time have you told Mr. or Mrs. 10 Schindler that they could not come to the nursing 11 home or visit Terri? 12 A No. I did not. 13 Q did you ever tell the nursing home not 14 to give the Schindlers information on Terri's 15 medical condition? 16 A At one point, yes. 17 Q Why did you do that? 18 A When Terri was in the hospital for, I 19 believe a urinary tract -- no. I forget what she 20 was in the hospital for. It was for some 21 hospitalization. And the Schindlers never showed 22 up or even called about her care. 23 Q Did you change your position about 24 giving the Schindlers access to medical 25 information? 62 1 A Yes. I did. 2 Q Looking back on it, was that a moment 3 that you are proud of? 4 A No. I was not. It was done. It was 5 emotions running. I was angry. 6 Q Back then in 1993, that was still three 7 years after Terri's incident, how were you doing 8 emotionally? How were you taking it? 9 A I'm sorry. Repeat that, George. 10 Q Back in 1993, how well were you coping 11 emotionally with what happened to Terri? How were 12 you doing? 13 A I don't know how I was doing it. I was 14 an emotional wreck. I was seeing a 15 psychiatrist. A psychologist, I should say. I 16 had a lot of unanswered questions of why. 17 Q Did you ever tell your in-laws that 18 Terri would be better off dead than coming out of 19 her coma? 20 A No. I did not, sir. 21 Q Did you ever have a conversation or make 22 a statement about her coming out of the coma? 23 A I made a mention to Mr. Schindler one 24 day out in the hall. I said, this was after 25 probably four or five years of Terri being in this 63 1 condition, I said to him maybe it was in Terri's 2 best interests. It was not feasible to come out 3 and find out you are going to be a quadraplegic 4 and you can't walk anymore. 5 Q On what basis did you believe she would 6 be a quadraplegic? 7 A The doctors have told me that in the 8 past. 9 Q How has her (sic) relationship been with 10 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler since the February '93 11 incident? 12 A How has my relationship been? 13 Q Yes. 14 A I have not spoken to them since, except 15 through trials or -- 16 Q Have they spoken to you? 17 A No. They have not. I did, on one 18 occasion when Terri had her gallbladder removed, I 19 did on one occasion when the mother called the 20 nursing home, I tried to talk to her and she 21 refused to talk to me. 22 Q Did Mr. Schindler ever follow up on his 23 threat to get a lawyer? 24 A Yes. He did. 25 Q I believe a petition was filed in July 64 1 of 1993. Later that year. What were you sued 2 for, Mr. Schiavo? What was the Schindlers asking 3 the Court to do? 4 A That I was not taking care of Terri. I 5 was seeing other people. And that I was in 6 conflict due to her money that if Terri died I 7 would inherit it. 8 Q Mr. Schiavo, since Terri's incident, did 9 you have any intimate relations with another 10 woman? 11 A Yes. I did. 12 Q When did that occur? 13 A Approximately five years after the 14 incident. I don't know the exact dates. 15 Q How long did that relationship last? 16 A Approximately eight months. 17 Q Did Mr. and Mrs. Schindler know about 18 it? 19 A Yes. They did. Mr. Schindler wanted me 20 to do it. He condoned it, along with Mrs. 21 Schindler. They met the person I was seeing. 22 Q Do you currently have an intimate 23 relationship with a woman? 24 A Yes. I do. 25 Q How long have you known her? 65 1 A Five-and-a-half years. 2 Q Would you like to have a family 3 sometime? 4 A Very much so. 5 Q Because you're involved, because you 6 have a relationship with someone else, does that 7 mean you don't love Terri? 8 A I love Terri very deeply. I always 9 will. 10 Q Michael, does your petition have 11 anything to do with Terri's money at all? 12 A No. It does not. 13 Q How was the lawsuit the Schindler's 14 brought against you disposed of? 15 A They dismissed their case with prejudice 16 as long as I would not seek attorney's fees. 17 Q At some point in time, did you move 18 Terri from Sabal Palms Nursing Center? 19 A Yes. I did. 20 Q Where did Terri move to? 21 A Palm Garden, Largo. 22 Q Is that where she is currently staying? 23 A Yes. It is. 24 Q When did that occur? 25 A 1996, I believe. 66 1 Q How often did you -- how often do you 2 see Terri at Palm Garden in Largo? 3 A Currently? 4 Q Yes. 5 A Once or twice a week. 6 Q What do you do? How long do you stay? 7 What do you do when you see Terri? 8 A An hour-and-a-half, two hours. I 9 usually get there when Olga is bringing her out of 10 the shower. Help lift her. Get her dressed. 11 Usually blow dry her hair. Dry her hands off. 12 Put her pads in her hands. Usually check over her 13 skin. Make sure she does not have any tears or 14 whatever. 15 Q Do you still buy Terri's clothes for 16 her? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Do you still help dress Terri? 19 A Yes. Make sure she has her haircut 20 appointment. Do her wash. Make sure all her 21 needs are met. 22 Q By the way, Mr. Schiavo, all the times 23 that Terri has been hospitalized, how many times 24 would you say Terri has been hospitalized? 25 A Hospitalized? 67 1 Q For the various medical problems you 2 testified to before. 3 A Twenty times. 4 Q Has she ever been in the hospital one 5 day when you were not there? 6 A No. She has not. 7 Q How many times has Terri gone to the 8 doctor? 9 A Over a hundred, 130. 10 Q What is the logistics, mechanism of 11 getting Terri to the doctor? 12 A Depending on what the problem is, prior 13 we used to have to put her in SunStar ambulance. 14 Now she basically is transported by wheelchair 15 transport. 16 Q In those hundred or so doctor visits, 17 has there ever been a doctor visit for Terri where 18 you have not been there with her? 19 A No. There has not. I was there for 20 every one of them. 21 Q Was there a point in Terri's care where 22 you came to the decision that she should not be 23 medically treated for an infection? 24 A Yes. There was. 25 Q When did that occur? 68 1 A I believe it was in '94. '93, '94. 2 Q When did -- tell me how that came about? 3 A I took Terri to the doctors for a 4 bladder infection. The doctor recommended that we 5 don't treat the infection and that Terri should 6 have a "Do Not Resuscitate" order in place. 7 Q How did you feel about that when you 8 heard that? 9 A I was emotional, but I felt it was what 10 Terri would want. 11 Q Did you bring up the subject of the DNR 12 order, not treating the infection, first? 13 A No. The doctor did. 14 Q Did you make a decision to implement, 15 institute, a Do Not Resuscitate order and Do Not 16 Treat The Infection? 17 A Yes. I did. 18 Q What would have been the medical 19 consequences of not treating that infection? 20 A Terri -- the infection would basically 21 turn into a septic-type infection throughout her 22 body. It would naturally shut down her organs. 23 A painless process. 24 Q Was that decision implemented? 25 A Yes. It was. 69 1 Q Did the nursing home react to it at all? 2 A Yes. They did. They started getting 3 all upset. Telling me it was against the law to 4 do something like that. 5 Q How did -- did Mr. and Mrs. Schindler do 6 anything in response to your decision not to treat 7 the infection? 8 A They amended their original petition 9 and brought the new amended petition against me 10 that I was not treating the infection. 11 Q Didn't they accuse you of abusing Terri 12 by not treating the infection? 13 A Yes. They did. 14 Q Did you back off of the decision at 15 that time? 16 A Yes. I did. I had the nursing home, I 17 had the petition, and my emotions were running. 18 So I backed way off. 19 Q Back then in, I believe it was March of 20 1994, the Schindler's amended their petition in 21 regarding the decision not to treat. At that 22 time, why didn't you pursue removal of the feeding 23 tube? 24 A Because at that time my emotions were 25 running. I couldn't -- I was ready to do the 70 1 natural thing. I was not ready to pull the 2 feeding tube at that time. 3 Q Even though you knew Terri wanted it? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Why were you not able? 6 A It was -- I was not ready for that yet. 7 Q The Schindlers dismissed their petition 8 with prejudice in September of 1995 and this 9 petition was filed in 19 -- your current petition 10 to remove artificial life support was filed in May 11 of 1988 (sic). Why did you wait two-and-a-half 12 years to file the petition? 13 A I did not wait. I met you in the 14 beginning of 1996, I believe. I was talking to 15 another attorney. 16 Q Well, okay. I have to caution you not 17 to testify as to any communication you might have 18 with your attorney because of attorney/client 19 privilege. Let me ask it this way. Did you seek 20 to put into motion your decision to remove the 21 feeding tube before the petition was filed in May 22 of 1988 (sic)? 23 THE COURT: You keep saying '88. 24 MR. FELOS: '98. Thank you. 25 Your Honor. 71 1 Q (By Mr. Felos) When did you make the 2 decision and start putting it in motion? 3 A In 1995. End of 1995. 4 Q Mr. Schiavo, I would like to show you 5 Petitioner's Exhibit Number Four for 6 identification and ask you if you can identify 7 what those are. 8 A This is an affidavit from Dr. Gambone. 9 I believe it explains Terri's condition. 10 Q Affidavit of Dr. Gambone and affidavit 11 of -- 12 A I'm sorry. James Barnhill. 13 Q And? 14 A Dr. Kamp. 15 MR. FELOS: Your Honor. I move to 16 introduce these into evidence as Petitioner's 17 Exhibit Number Four. 18 THE COURT: Is there an objection? 19 MS. CAMPBELL: No objection. 20 THE COURT: Thank you. They will be so 21 received. 22 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 4 WAS 23 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 24 Q (By Mr. Felos) Mr. Schiavo, you 25 mentioned that your mother passed away. When did 72 1 that occur? 2 A 1997. July. 3 Q Did that experience at all affect your 4 decision to bring this petition? 5 A My mother gave me a gift when she was 6 dying. We stopped her feeding because that is 7 what she wanted, and her medications. She gave me 8 that gift that it was okay to die. 9 Q Mr. Schiavo, why have you filed this 10 petition? Why are you asking the Court for 11 permission to remove Terri's feeding tube? 12 A Because that is what Terri wanted, and 13 it's my responsibility because I love her so much 14 to follow out what she wanted. 15 MR. FELOS: Thank you. No further 16 questions. 17 THE COURT: Why don't we take a short 18 break. Five minutes ought to be enough to stretch 19 and use the facilities and get back. 20 THE BAILIFF: All rise. Court stands in 21 recess. 22 (THEREUPON, A RECESS WAS HAD FROM 10:40 - 23 10:50 A.M.) 24 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, may I step out 25 and find co-counsel? 73 1 THE COURT: Yes, sir. 2 THE BAILIFF: Circuit court is back in 3 session. 4 THE COURT: Thank you. 5 MR. FELOS: May we approach a moment? 6 (THEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE 7 HAD AT THE BENCH.) 8 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, my client 9 requests that the proceedings not be recorded by 10 the media, and he believes that it would impair 11 the privacy rights of the ward and we make that 12 request. 13 THE COURT: What is the legal basis for 14 that? Is there any authority for keeping the 15 media out of here? 16 MR. FELOS: I have not researched the 17 issue, Your Honor. I have no case to present. 18 THE COURT: The bases are juvenile 19 proceedings are private and they cannot be in 20 those, but they can be outside the court. It's 21 interesting they can take -- 22 MR. FELOS: There is some precedent in 23 the guardianship statute. There is a provision 24 for the court to be closed in incompetency 25 proceedings. 74 1 THE COURT: Incompetency proceedings. 2 And I have so ruled the media had no right to 3 those files or proceedings. This is different. 4 Do you know of any authority? 5 MS. CAMPBELL: I don't know of any. 6 While I'd like to see it agreed to, I don't know 7 of any legal authority that we could, because I 8 don't think there is anything under Chapter 119. 9 THE COURT: Absent authority, I don't 10 know how I can ask them to leave. If you would 11 like to take an additional recess and see if you 12 can prevail upon them, I'm willing to do that, but 13 I don't know of any legal authority for them to 14 not be here. 15 MR. FELOS: Then I say let's proceed, if 16 that is the ruling of the Court. 17 THE COURT: Thank you. 18 CROSS-EXAMINATION 19 BY MS. CAMPBELL: 20 Q Good morning, Mr. Schiavo. As you 21 recall, I am Pam Campbell. I represent Mr. and 22 Mrs. Schindler. 23 A Good morning. 24 Q The relationship that you currently 25 have, the lady's name, is it Jody Sintonsay 75 1 (phonetic)? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Could you describe that relationship for 4 me? 5 A We are boyfriend/girlfriend. We live 6 together. 7 Q Would you consider her your fiancee? 8 A I would consider her -- yes. Yes. 9 Q Has she ever been so noticed as anything 10 in writing in the newspaper as your fiancee? 11 A Yes. 12 Q You and she own a house together; is 13 that correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Can you recall going on the train tip 16 incident that you referred to with Mr. Felos, can 17 can you recall the time frame when you and Terri 18 were coming on the train to Florida? 19 A What do you mean the time frame? 20 Q When was that? 21 A I believe it was in '86. 22 Q 1986? 23 A Yeah. '86. I'm not good with dates and 24 times, like I told you before. 25 Q Wasn't it in October of 1985? 76 1 A I don't recall the month. It was the 2 month that her grandmother passed away. 3 Q You were married November of '84? 4 A November 10th. Yes. 5 Q You came to the Schindlers' condominium 6 in St. Petersburg for a honeymoon right after 7 that? 8 A Correct. 9 Q Then in '85, the spring of '85, did you 10 come back to St. Petersburg for a vacation? 11 A Did we come back? 12 Q A plane trip? 13 A I don't believe so. I don't recall 14 that. 15 Q After Terri's accident, which was 16 February 1990, were you employed at that time? 17 A After Terri's accident? Yes. I was. 18 Q Shortly after the accident, didn't you 19 stop working at Agostino's? 20 A Yes. 21 Q When did you then become reemployed? 22 A I went back to Agostino's for a month or 23 so. I worked part-time for them. They were under 24 new ownership so -- and that went belly up. Then 25 I just -- I didn't work. I went back to school in 77 1 '93, I believe. 2 Q And you began your employment with 3 Morton Plant in 1996? 4 A Correct. 5 Q So basically from the beginning of 1990 6 until 1996 you were unemployed; is that correct? 7 A Yes. 8 Q You were talking about some of the fund 9 raisers that you testified to previously. Can you 10 tell me about some of the details of the fund 11 raisers? 12 A We sold hot dogs, or I sold hot dogs on 13 St. Petersburg Beach. We sold pretzels at the 14 Publix. We had a Valentine's Day dance for her 15 with the association. The association I believe, 16 around Christmas, they put a luminary -- you buy 17 the bag in Terri's name. They did that on St. 18 Pete Beach to help raise money. 19 Q where were all those funds that you were 20 raising, where were they being maintained? 21 A At First Union Bank. 22 Q Did she work for Prudential at the time? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Did the Prudential employees get 25 together and have a fund raiser? 78 1 A I don't recall. I don't remember that. 2 Q Was there a fund raiser promoted by the 3 St. Petersburg Times, Channel 10 and Channel 8? 4 A Yes. I said I was on the news. 5 Q About how much money did all those 6 different fund raisers raise? 7 A Probably close to about 20,000. I'm not 8 sure. You would have to check on the old 9 records. 10 Q Did you also receive a payment, pay-out, 11 from Prudential from insurance proceeds that Terri 12 was entitled to? 13 A It was her life insurance, yes, that she 14 was entitled to. 15 Q How much was that? 16 A 10,000. 17 Q Did you also receive Terri's social 18 security checks during that time frame? 19 A No. Terri could not get social security 20 because she was still receiving her payment from 21 work. 22 Q Did you receive any SSI from Terri? 23 A No. 24 Q Did you move to Florida from 25 Philadelphia in April 1986? 79 1 A That sounds correct. 2 Q And you lived in the Schindlers' condo? 3 A Yes. We did. 4 Q How much rent were you paying at the 5 time? 6 A I don't recall. 7 Q About $400 a month? 8 A Sounds correct. Yeah. 9 Q Now you testified previously that 10 afterwards you moved to Thunder Bay. Isn't it 11 true that you moved to McGregor Place? 12 A Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about 13 that one. 14 Q You moved to McGregor Place in September 15 1989; is that correct? 16 A I don't remember the date. 17 Q If you could bear with me and listen to 18 the time frame. I believe you testified that you 19 moved into the Schindlers' condo in April of '86 20 and then moved to McGregor Place, I'm asking you, 21 in 1989? Was it previously to -- 22 A I don't recall the dates, ma'am. 23 Q Was it right prior to Terri's accident, 24 which would have been in February 1990? 25 A I don't recall the dates that we moved 80 1 in there and moved around. The accident happened 2 at Thunder Bay. 3 Q How long did you live in McGregor Place? 4 A I just remembered it. I don't 5 remember. 6 Q Months? 7 A It was a few months. Yeah. 8 Q How long did you live in Thunder Bay 9 prior to Terri's accident? 10 A Eight months, I believe. I'm not sure. 11 Q During that entire time that you were 12 living in the Schindlers' condo, from '86 until 13 sometime in '89, were you paying rent consistently 14 during that time? 15 A No. We were not. 16 MR. FELOS: Objection. I believe that 17 is a mischaracterization of his testimony. He 18 didn't testify that he lived in the Schindler's 19 condo from '86 to 1989. 20 THE COURT: I'll overrule the 21 objection. I think there is enough in there to 22 allow that kind of question. 23 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Repeat the 24 question. 25 Q (By Ms. Campbell) Did you pay rent to 81 1 the Schindlers then during that entire time you 2 were living in the Schindler's condo? 3 A No. They were gracious and let us slide 4 a couple months when we could not afford it. 5 Q Just a few months? 6 A I don't remember how many months, ma'am. 7 Q Did the Schindlers assist you in moving 8 from Philadelphia to St. Petersburg? 9 A No. I don't recall. 10 Q Did they contribute $900 for your moving 11 expenses? 12 A I don't recall that. 13 Q When you moved from the Schindlers' 14 condo, is it your testimony then that you moved 15 from the Schindlers' condo to McGregor Place? 16 A That would have to be. Yeah. 17 Q When you moved from the condo to 18 McGregor Place, did the Schindlers loan you money 19 at that time to secure a new apartment? 20 A I don't recall. 21 Q Right after Terri's accident, wasn't 22 Mrs. Schindler right there by your side helping 23 with Terri each step of the way? 24 A Not all the time. No. 25 Q Would you describe your relationship as 82 1 close in trying to assist Terri? 2 A My mother-in-law and I were close. Yes. 3 Q In February of 1991, a year after the 4 accident, didn't you, the three of you, live 5 together? 6 A Yes. 7 Q You and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler? 8 A Yes. 9 Q With the hopes that Terri would then 10 ultimately come home and live there with you? 11 A Yes. 12 Q At that time, were you sharing in the 13 expenses, you and the Schindlers? 14 A Which home are you speaking of? 15 Q Hemosita in Del Mar? 16 A That home was in my name. I was paying 17 half the rent. Mr. and Mrs. Schindler and their 18 daughter were paying the other half. 19 Q Other expenses that you shared, Florida 20 Power, telephone bill, they were shared as well? 21 A Yes. 22 Q You were in the larger home with hopes 23 that Terri would be able to come and live there 24 with you? 25 A We were in the larger home, but it was 83 1 not with the hopes that Terri could live with us. 2 Because we only rented the place. 3 Q Was there a reason why it was in, the 4 lease was in your name as opposed to 5 Mr. Schindler's name? 6 A Because Mr. and Mrs. Schindler went 7 bankrupt and they could not get credit. 8 Q But you all shared the home equally? 9 A Mr. and Mrs. Schindler and Suzanne and 10 myself. 11 Q Was there a time then in that you moved 12 from that house to another house with the 13 Schindlers? 14 A No. 15 Q When you were describing the different 16 places where Terri went, from Northside to 17 Bayfront and to the Mediplex, College Harbor, 18 would Mrs. Schindler go with you to those 19 individual facilities to visit Terri? 20 A She went. Yes. But not all the time. 21 Q The time Terri was home living in the 22 home with you, Mrs. Schindler lived there, too? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Did she assist you in taking care of 25 Terri during that time frame? 84 1 A Yes. She did. 2 Q The incident then that happened, the 3 disagreement in Terri's room in February of 1993 4 between you and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, to that 5 time frame, was it shortly thereafter that you 6 decided to withhold medical information from the 7 Schindlers? 8 A I don't know the exact time frame, but I 9 believe it was. 10 Q Do you recall then how long it was then 11 until you started allowing the Schindlers to learn 12 more about the medical condition of their 13 daughter? 14 A I don't recall the time frame. 15 Q Do you recall in 1996 your attorney, 16 Deborah Bushnell, sending a letter to the 17 Schindlers allowing them to now be able to get 18 information about their daughter? 19 A Yes. I remember that. 20 Q Prior to that kind of communication 21 going in 1996 -- so from '93 to 1996, did you 22 allow the nursing home to talk to Mr. and Mrs. 23 Schindler about their daughter's medical 24 condition? 25 A Yeah. Um-hmm. 85 1 Q It's your testimony here today that the 2 nursing home was permitted, from 1993 to 1996, to 3 discuss Terri's medical condition with the 4 Schindlers? 5 A I believe after I left I told them not 6 to -- to disregard or whatever, that other order. 7 Yeah. I'm not sure of the exact time frame. 8 Q Would it surprise you to know that the 9 nursing home was not giving out information during 10 that time frame to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler? 11 MR. FELOS: Objection. Lack of 12 foundation. 13 THE COURT: Overruled. 14 A I'm sorry. Repeat your question. 15 Q (By Ms. Campbell) Would it surprise you 16 to know that the nursing home was not giving out 17 information to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler from '93 to 18 '96? 19 A The way Sabal Palms went, it would not 20 surprise me. But I know they get information. 21 Q I'm sorry. What was the last point? 22 A I know they did get information. 23 Q Who do you believe they received 24 information from? 25 A Elaine Nelson. The social worker. 86 1 Q From Sabal Palms? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And the different facilities that you 4 would take Terri to, for example when she would go 5 to Largo Medical Center for hospitalization, were 6 you ever requested as the guardian as to whether 7 or not there were any advanced directives from 8 Theresa Schiavo? 9 A From the hospital? 10 Q Yes. 11 A I don't remember any of those. 12 Q On any of the hospital admission dates, 13 do you recall anyone from admissions going over 14 paperwork with you? 15 A Yeah. 16 Q Do you recall them asking you whether or 17 not Theresa Schiavo had any advanced directives 18 such as a living will? 19 A I don't recall them asking that. 20 Q What do you believe that your testimony 21 would have been to that? What do you think your 22 answer would have been? 23 A If they would have asked me at that time 24 frame that she was -- 25 Q The question is whether or not she had a 87 1 living will? 2 A My answer would be no. She does not 3 have a living will. 4 Q Did you ever seek legal assistance or 5 authorize an attorney to demand payment 6 reimbursement to you of the Schindlers for some 7 money for a credit card debt? 8 A This -- I don't recall that. 9 Q In 1993, do you recall an attorney Jan 10 Piper? 11 A Yes. I do. 12 Q Do you recall Mr. Piper sending a letter 13 to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler on your behalf demanding 14 payment of, a refund of some credit card debt? 15 A I remember him sending a letter. I 16 don't know if it was about a credit card. 17 Q What was your recollection of what was 18 the dispute between you and Mr. and Mrs. 19 Schindler? 20 A I don't remember, but I don't think it 21 was a credit card. 22 Q You do recall Mr. Piper sending a letter 23 on your behalf to the Schindlers? A demand 24 letter? 25 A I do recall that. Yes. 88 1 Q Is it your testimony here today that 2 you never agreed with Mr. and Mrs. Schindler to 3 reimburse them for any of the expenses that they 4 had advanced to you and Terri in the way of moving 5 expenses? 6 A I never agreed with them. 7 Q You never agreed to reimburse them? 8 A I never agreed. They never even brought 9 it up. 10 Q So your testimony is today that you and 11 the Schindlers never discussed repayment of any of 12 the loans made to you? 13 A No. We have never discussed that. 14 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, objection. The 15 question is improper because the witness has 16 denied that there were any loans. The question 17 is -- 18 THE COURT: The question is did you ever 19 agree to reimburse. I don't know how you 20 categorize it. We can get real technical. I 21 think the Court understands the nature of the 22 question. I will allow it. 23 MS. CAMPBELL: The question went to a 24 discussion between he and the Schindlers, and I 25 believe the answer was no. There was no other 89 1 discussions. No further questions. 2 THE COURT: Thank you. Redirect? 3 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. FELOS: 5 Q Just to clarify a couple of things, Mr. 6 Schiavo, there was some testimony about life 7 insurance. Was in fact the payments that Terri 8 received disability payments from Prudential? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Not life insurance benefits? 11 A Yes. 12 Q You also testified about social security 13 benefits. I recall you saying that Terri did not 14 receive social security benefits. Was that during 15 the time she was receiving disability from 16 Prudential? 17 A Say it again to me. 18 Q Did Terri ever -- did Terri ever receive 19 any social security benefits while she was 20 receiving disability payments from Prudential? 21 A No. 22 Q Did she receive social security payments 23 after that? 24 A Yes. 25 Q In fact, are you aware of any written